Wednesday, May 16, 2018

I had to take the abortion cartoon down

Because it was messing things up. But instead I want to discuss a statement I made many years ago, that if politics were logical, Democrats would be pro-life and Republicans would be pro-choice.

33 comments:

W.LindsayWheeler said...

Really, "...if politics were logical, Democrats would be pro-life and Republicans would be pro-choice".

Why?

Explain that, Mr. Reppert? Because you think Repukes are evil, corporatists? Evil ONLY exists in the Repuke party and Democrats are angels?

That you would form a sentence that way, is very disturbing to me.

Logically? The Repuke party was the party of abolitionists---Not the Democrat Party. The Demoncrat party was the party of American conservatism! The Repuke party was the party of Red Repbulicans, radical leftists/progressives! Hell, Abraham Lincoln put a German Communist, who fled the 1848 revolutions in Germany, in his cabinet. Abraham Lincoln was a flaming progressive Leftist!

For myself, I thought everybody should be pro-Life regardless of party affliation! Shouldn't the party of abolitionism be the party of pro-life, Prof. Reppert?

Ohhh, because the Demoncrat party of today is a bunch of bleedin' heart snowflakes? Yeh that demonstration of their bleedin' hearts in the torching and rioting of Berkeley? In attacking inanimate statues and tearing them down? That example of bleedin' heart snowflakiness? Ohh, that demonstration of bombing 19 ROTC buildings in the 60s? That demonstration of their good intentions?

Ohh, the Demoncrat party is full of goodness and virtue? Really? Who passed the 1960s Civil Rights Act? The Repuke party----NOT the Demoncrat Party. So what makes you think that the Demoncrat Party is the party of Moral Righteousness?

Starhopper said...

Victor is making a very good point here. It's amazing on how many issues the major parties have totally exchanged their positions over time. Yesterday's Republican is very often today's Democrat, and vice versa.

In the Reconstruction Era, the Democrats were the party of voter suppression and outright racism, while the Republicans were in favor of broad civil rights and inclusion for former slaves. Today, the exact reverse is the case.

In the Teddy Roosevelt Era, the Republican party was the champion of conservation and what we now call "ecology", whereas the Democrats were basically in favor of bulldozing the forests and endangered species be damned. Today, once again, the positions are reversed. The Democrats push for green technology and warn against global climate change, while the Republicans are the party of "Drill, drill, drill," and the EPA be damned.

In the 1950s-1960s, the Republicans were the default Cold Warriors while the Democrats were labeled as being "soft on Communism". Today, it is the Republican administration that cosies up to Vladimir Putin and does nothing to defend our electoral process against Russian interference, while the Democrats want nothing to do with the oligarchs and acknowledge the cyberthreat to our democracy.

Hugo Pelland said...

"...the torching and rioting of Berkeley?"

It's just a detail but I think it's a meaningful one.

There was no torching nor rioting of Berkeley. I was in class there on the "worst" night of one of these so-called riots and it was so benign. Sure, people fought, a garbage bin was on fire, a speaker had to change venue then got cancelled I believe. And yeah, there are ridiculous "snowflakes" who should spend their energy on other things than preventing speech they find offensive.

But the truth is that this is a giant smokescreen, created mostly by the Right on the Internet, to make people believe that the Left is violent. It's part of a narrative that divide us, just like the Left who wants us to believe that Right is all about White supremacy.

In other words, the examples people pick tell us a lot more about what color of Kool-Aid they drank, and I just hope we can try to help each other not drink any at all.

Starhopper said...

Back in the legendary 60s (and early 70s), I did take part in 2 or 3 antiwar demonstrations at Arizona State University. They were entirely peaceful - mostly just a lot of speeches from the library steps, and crowds of students listening (with occasional chanting), and tons of literature passed out.

In the run up to the invasion of Iraq, I was outspoken against it. (And remember, I was then a mid-level manager in the Defense Department, in charge of operating the multiservice global lethal threat warning network, a.k.a. the Integrated Broadcast Service.) 2 or 3 days before "shock and awe", I participated in an antiwar demonstration in Augsburg, Germany (I happened to be attending classes at the NATO School in Oberammergau at the time.) It was so peaceful that the the polizei who were there to ensure order joined the marchers (Ya gotta love the Germans!). I picked up a button that read "Nicht in Meinem Namen!" (Not in My Name) and until my retirement 7 years later prominently displayed it on my desk.

A coupla years ago I marched around the White House (then occupied by President Obama) in a major demonstration against the Keystone Pipeline. Entirely peaceful.

Although I did not take part in the Black Lives Matter demonstrations during the Baltimore Uprising after the death of Freddie Gray, I noted that they were entirely mischaracterized by Fox News as violent and destructive. The very real unfortunate incidents that accompanied the marches and such were all the actions of a tiny handful of people who were not part of the demonstrations at all, but were common criminals taking advantage of the situation. Baltimore was actually safer to walk around in during the marches than normal.

Tomorrow I will join the people on Main Street, Catonsville, to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the 1968 Catonsville 9 draft board action. It will be a 100% peaceful demonstration.

99.9 percent of marches and demonstrations in the US are 100 percent peaceful. The right loves to fixate on the rare (and lamentable) exceptions.

Legion of Logic said...

Republicans aren't "the party of outright racism" by any rational standard I've seen.

Starhopper said...

Republicans aren't "the party of outright racism" by any rational standard I've seen.

"Mexicans are rapists." (Trump)
"China person" (Republican candidate for West Virginia governor)
"But you also had people that were very fine people [among the neo-nazis]." (Trump)
"We elected Mike Steele to be the RNC chair because he’s a black guy, that was the wrong thing to do." (Ian Walters)
"[I am] calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" (Trump)
"You shoot at the enemy. You try to identify the enemy and the enemy right now, the overwhelming majority of people coming in, are people of color or people of Hispanic origin." Main governor LePage
"Let me tell you something: Black people come up the highway and they kill Mainers. You ought to look into that! You make me so sick!" (again, LePage)
"Well, one of our attorneys is a Jew." (Kalya Moore)
"I think [America] was great at a time when families were united, even though we had slavery, they cared for one another." (Roy Moore)

Or, to sum up:

"I would never say all Republicans are racist because that would be wrong. But let's face it: If you are a racist, you are very probably a Republican." (Bill Maher)

Starhopper said...

Now Bill Maher is a genuine asshole, but he nevertheless raises a very interesting point. Find an admitted racist, and you'll almost certainly be looking at a Republican. Why is that so?

Food for thought.

Legion of Logic said...

Find an admitted racist, and you'll almost certainly be looking at a Republican. Why is that so?

This has been the exact opposite of my experience. Granted, this is counting everyone and not just politicians, but the vast, vast, vast majority of racism I see comes from the left. Every black Republican and conservative is an Uncle Tom. If you find someone assuming things about a black person based entirely on the color of their skin, it's likely someone on the left. Someone stoking racial animosity? Democrat's a safe bet. And so on and so on.

But, that's been my experience. Perhaps my news sources are more fond of pointing out bad behavior by leftists.

Starhopper said...

Wow! What a difference in experience. I have never encountered a leftist racist in my entire life. Not in person, not on line, not on the radio or television. Not in Arizona where I grew up, not in the Army, not in Germany or England where I lived for 10 years, not here in Maryland. Not one. (I don't consider making assumptions about a person on the basis of skin color to be "racist".) But I literally cannot count the times I have heard racist sentiments (and witnessed racist actions) by persons on the right. An admittedly extreme example is our own white supremacist neo-nazi Lindsay Wheeler. Usually they're more subtle than him, preferring to use dog whistles such as Bush's Willie Horton ads or Romney's references to "urban voters" or Reagan's Welfare Queens or Newt Gingrich's food stamp recipients (who, ironically, are mostly white).

Legion of Logic said...

(I don't consider making assumptions about a person on the basis of skin color to be "racist".)

I do. It's judging someone by something other than their character.

But if I ignore that, and go entirely by overtly hostile things like derogatory racial insults, then I would STILL say that most have been from progressives with their constant attacks on "whiteness" and white people, and demanding safe spaces where white people are not allowed. But again, perhaps my views are skewed by the filter of my media sources.

In my life here in North Central Arkansas, I can think of exactly three people that have used the "n" word in a derogatory manner (not counting one who works with me alongside a black man, and they are as racist as can be toward each other just to help stay awake during night shift), and none of them even care enough to vote. (I live an hour away from Harrison, which is home to the national HQ of the KKK, and there are still that few people who are racist - openly, at least. And the people I know from Harrison are embarrassed by the Klan presence.

Most of the progressive boogeymen simply aren't a factor here. I suppose elsewhere they might be. I guess "your mileage may vary" is a useful expression.

Starhopper said...

Yeah, we've had radically different experiences. I've heard of these "safe spaces" but have never encountered one in real life. They all seem to be somewhere else, I guess! And I've never once had my "whiteness" attacked by anyone - and until recently I lived in a majority black city, Baltimore. Always got along with everyone, and they got along just fine with me.

Although there were very real health issues that made necessary my moving in with my daughter's family in Catonsville (I've been in and out of the hospital of late, and I am lately prone to debilitating falls), I do miss the city. It can be boring here in this zero diversity white bread suburb. But being with my grandkids every day makes up for that!

Legion of Logic said...

I'm sorry to hear about your health issues. It seems that right around 30 or so is when you realize that physically you've achieved all you're going to, and it's downhill from there.

I'm curious what makes "zero diversity" boring? Honest question. Can't say I've ever experienced anything else. Our main differences here are which church we attend.

For whatever reason, where I work we have a very high number of people from the Phillipines, and while they usually share certain cultural (I assume) attributes like being unfailingly cheerful and hard-working (I've never seen a single deviation, which is impressive), I can't say that things are somehow enhanced when they are around simply because they aren't white Arkansans.

On the other hand, I had been out of school for a long time before I realized, thinking back, that my class actually had Asian and Latino kids. My son's therapist strongly suspects that I would have earned an Asperger's diagnosis had such things existed back then, so maybe my obliviousness when it comes to people makes it really easy for me to not even notice something as superficial as racial differences.

W.LindsayWheeler said...

Starhopper---"I never met a leftist racist".

Right. Then he doesn't know Communist strategy. Communists used nationalism to break down Western Imperialism. The Viet Cong were National Leftists; a national movement supported, conducted by and protected by Communists, i.e. Internationalist Socialist---the Soviet Union, and Communist China! Nelson Mandela's African Congress was a Communist/International Socialist organization that supported Black Nationalism to tear down the Afrikanner government of South Africa. Martin Luther King was mentored by Communists in a Black nationalist uprising.

If you read Rosa Luxemburg's Nationalities Questions, she excoriates Lenin for using bring back nationalism of the minorities. Lenin was using Nationalism to break up larger entities.

See Communists do use nationalism to break up their targets of Imperialism, Colonialism and/or Western oppression. The Communist inspired ethnic studies programs on college campuses are to "nationalize" minorities!

So there is all sorts of leftist racists. Al Sharpton, Ceasar Chavez, and others are all Leftist racists---for their own.

The French Revolution was a Leftist revolution that inspired nationalism against Christendom.

And for the piece-de-resistance, Adolf Hitler was a Leftist racist.

The abbreviation, "Nazi" stands for "National Socialist". Socialists ARE Leftists. The full title of the Nazi party is "National Socialist Workers Party". "Workers Party"????? That is of the Left. At the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler jumped up and shouted "Let the Revolution begin". That's Leftist. Hitler said, "We are the full counterpart of the French Revolution". That's Leftist. Hitler and his people hated, hated the Aristocracy and the Monarchy of Germany! Hitler said, "We are not only the conqueror but also the executor of Marxism, stripped of its Jewish Talmudic Dogma". As Prof. Zeev Sternhell, Jewish, Living in Israel, in his book, The Birth of Fascist Ideology, Nazism/Fascism IS A REVISION OF MARXISM!

Hitler was pro-animal rights. He was against smoking.

Hitler was a Leftist. Nationalism was FIRST a Leftist device. Leftism comes out of Protestantism and much of Protestantism from Wycliff to Hus were Nationalist movements!

To be of the "Right", the True right---One Must BE a Monarchist. I'm a Monarchist. A true rightist. One has to accept the dictates of Hierarchy. That is to be a rightist. Hitler rejected hierarchy. He was a modern republican which is democracy. He hated parlimentarianism but he adopted all the other tenets of democracy.

So there. Starhopper, an education on Leftist Racists!

And to continue on with the Violence of the Left---the tarring and feathering and the attacking of the Loyalists and their families. The French Revolution where the Left went on an orgy of killing. The Spanish Civil War and the orgy of Killing. Mao Tse-tung---and his Orgy of Killing. Pol Pot, Leftist, and his orgy of Killing. The Greek Civil Wars and the Greek Commies killing people. Oh yeh, another point, the Greek communists would purposely attack a German military unit in a Royalist village so that the Germans would retaliate and kill the whole village----that is Leftist Morality for you.

The Viet Cong, that Leftist group, entered the city of Hue and just started massacring people. That is the Left!

Are there such things as Leftist racists---hell yes. International Socialism uses and breeds nationalism into certain segments for its own goals.

Starhopper said...

Baltimore is a marvelous city with dozens of immigrant neighborhoods, some dating back to before the Civil War. We have Little Italy, Greek Highlandtown, Polish Fells Point, Lithuanian Butcher's Hill, Greek Canton, Irish Locust Point, Jewish Pikesville, and smaller enclaves of Slovaks, Ukrainians, Russians, Arabs, and of course the majority African American population (apologies to anyone I've overlooked). The variety of restaurants is mind boggling, and the little shops selling candy from Kiev or sausages from Krakow are everywhere.

Every year there is a never ending stream of ethnic festivals, mostly held in Patterson Park (the oldest city park in North America). In fact, this weekend I will be attending the annual Polish Festival at the Our Lady of the Holy Rosary Church to stock up on pierogi and kielbasa for my freezer.

Plus the people you just meet on the street, in coffee shops, on the water taxi, or at an Orioles game (yes, they suck this year!) are a constant joy. I love talking with people from Togo or Ghana or Uganda. Everyone has a different take on the city, and it makes for a delightful brew. I am a supporting member of the Maryland Museum of African Art and go to every social event there I can, where I meet artists from Niger, Mali, and other West African countries. I've become quite the fan of music from Mali and have a number of CDs of it in my car. Here is an example of just how beautiful it can be. (Listen to the whole thing!) Imagine being able to walk down the street and hear such things coming out of open windows, or even from restaurants and bars.

W.LindsayWheeler said...

Ohhhhh----I forgot another The Genocide of the Russian Royal Family by the Jewish led Bolshevist revolution in Russian. Look Genocide before the Holocaust. And nobody talks about the Genocide of the Russian Royal Family! And the killing of any Russian Aristocrat and his whole family. That Orgy of Killing.

W.LindsayWheeler said...

The Austrian Roman Catholic Aristocrat, Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, in his book Leftism Revisited, From de Sade and Marx to Hitler and Pol Pot (great book), has described the history of Leftism as the "Centuries of the G"----guillotines, goals, gallows, gas chambers and gulags". (pg xvii)

Leftists don't have morality. To think that the Demoncrat party has values is non-historical.

The Demoncrat party has values? This includes the Repuke party. BOTH are engaged in Soft Genocide. The attacking of racism, the preaching of multiculturalism/diversity, promoting of ethnic dilution---all forms of soft genocide which is Treason. And you are telling me that these parties have any moral authority? Inherent goodness? Treason is there with Blasphemy, the highest crimes that require the Death penalty and both parties are engaged in Soft Genocide: The Many Forms of Genocide: Hard and Soft. 5th Rev.
https://www.academia.edu/34936383/

ZERO moral authority. All people engaged in Soft Genocide have zero moral authority. The Demoncrat Party is the reprobate party. That it should naturally be pro-life is a joke.

One Brow said...

Legion of Logic said...
This has been the exact opposite of my experience. Granted, this is counting everyone and not just politicians, but the vast, vast, vast majority of racism I see comes from the left. Every black Republican and conservative is an Uncle Tom. If you find someone assuming things about a black person based entirely on the color of their skin, it's likely someone on the left. Someone stoking racial animosity? Democrat's a safe bet. And so on and so on.

When a black person supports a political position that reinforces unequal treatment of black people, how is that not a parallel to the behavior of Uncle Tom? I'm not sure what you mean by "things", but if you mean "experiences", that would be because there is a lot of commonality in the way black people are treated by police, teachers, store clerks, etc. Racial animosity doesn't need to be stoked; it's already there from the treatment that black people receive on a near-daily basis.

You could go on and on, but would likely reveal your ignorance and lack of empathy regarding people who are still treated as inferior citizens much of the time.

Legion of Logic said...

Starhopper,

It's interesting that you linked that, I was just having a conversation a few days ago in which I wondered what music would sound like if it was not even remotely influenced by the standard 4/4 time signature, verse/chorus song structure. That was really neat.

Legion of Logic said...

You could go on and on, but would likely reveal your ignorance and lack of empathy regarding people who are still treated as inferior citizens much of the time.

Spoken like a progressive who has no idea what he's talking about. Please, go on.

One Brow said...

Legion of Logic said...
Spoken like a progressive who has no idea what he's talking about. Please, go on.

Responding to what? I said what I wanted to say in response to what you said.

Legion of Logic said...

One Brow: I said what I wanted to say in response to what you said.

Yes, and it was amusingly embarrassing enough at your expense for me to ask for more.

Hugo Pelland said...

Legion, 2 days ago you wrote:
"...then I would STILL say that most have been from progressives with their constant attacks on "whiteness" and white people, and demanding safe spaces where white people are not allowed."

And I would really want to better understand what makes you think that because, frankly, it sounds absurd.

To be clear, it's not that the things you mentioned don't exist, it's just that it's both insignificant and not wide spread. Yes, we van find anecdotes, and there are some pretty bad ones, including some people I have personally met! But that's not statistically significant on their own.

Plus, as I mentioned before, I live in one of these places that is supposedly the worst bastion of Leftist SJWs, while you said you're in Arkansas... so we can learn a lot from each other about respective places I think, and that makes me technically more likely to suffer from that 'constant' racism against whites, right? So what am I supposed to be experiencing exactly? That's what makes no sense to me...

One Brow said...

Legion of Logic said...
Yes, and it was amusingly embarrassing enough at your expense for me to ask for more.

I'm not at all embarrassed about what I wrote. It's accurate, cogent, and relevant. If you think otherwise, feel free to explain why (and I'll listen), or don't. Your making snide comments without an authentic response does not demean nor diminish me in the slightest.

bmiller said...

@Legion,

They can't fool the omniscient even if you try to fool yourself. Your intentions are plain to them. :-)

bmiller said...

That should be "You can't fool...". Sorry

Legion of Logic said...

One Brow,

You said "You could go on and on, but would likely reveal your ignorance and lack of empathy regarding people who are still treated as inferior citizens much of the time."

This was a ridiculous and inaccurate thing to say, backed by not a shred of evidence. I stand fully by my description of your behavior thus far in this thread, and I suspect you will continue making ridiculous assertions backed by no evidence.

When you provide evidence, perhaps I'll feel the need to explain anything. Until then, snide comments are all your statements are worth.

One Brow said...

Legion of Logic said...
One Brow,

You said "You could go on and on, but would likely reveal your ignorance and lack of empathy regarding people who are still treated as inferior citizens much of the time."

This was a ridiculous and inaccurate thing to say, backed by not a shred of evidence. I stand fully by my description of your behavior thus far in this thread, and I suspect you will continue making ridiculous assertions backed by no evidence.


I agree the more accurate phrase would have been, 'You could go on and on, but would likely reveal even more deeply your ignorance and lack of empathy regarding people who are still treated as inferior citizens much of the time.' In and of itself, the notion that racial animosity is something stoked up in black people by progressives, rather than something black people suppress based on the treatment at the hands of society, which boils over from time time, reveal that either you don't understand how black people are treated (ignorance), or you think they should be immune to responding to it (a lack of empathy).

Your own words are all the evidence I have needed.

Legion of Logic said...

Except your ignorant and inaccurate comments are based on things that aren't even true. I never said they don't experience racism, and I never said they shouldn't respond to racism. I did say that I have seen much racist behavior from leftists.

Want to keep embarrassing yourself, or are you done?

Hugo Pelland said...

Legion,
Can I be real with you here for a second? I really like how you write, how you answer, usually, even if I disagree, but why would you write that kind of comments? It's empty of any meaning...

Legion of Logic said...

Hugo,

Which part? Having witnessed racist behavior from leftists, or telling One Brow that his attempts at psychoanalyzing me are utter failures?

Hugo Pelland said...

The entire last comment.

Hugo Pelland said...

Plus, I guess what I find disappointing is that you raised the issue of "constant attacks on "whiteness" and white people" and yet did not follow through on questions regarding that. Instead, you prefer to point out that you think One Brow's comment was ignorant, inaccurate and that he is embarrassing himself, without any specific content.

Like that comment I just write basically; it's useless. But I am waiting on an answer to the questions above.

"I live in one of these places that is supposedly the worst bastion of Leftist SJWs, while you said you're in Arkansas... so we can learn a lot from each other about respective places I think, and that makes me technically more likely to suffer from that 'constant' racism against whites, right? So what am I supposed to be experiencing exactly? That's what makes no sense to me..."

One Brow said...

Legion of Logic said...
Except your ignorant and inaccurate comments are based on things that aren't even true. I never said they don't experience racism, and I never said they shouldn't respond to racism. I did say that I have seen much racist behavior from leftists.

Want to keep embarrassing yourself, or are you done?


As you have acknowledged that "stoking racial animosity" is a fictitious notion, I am done. Oddly, I don't see any cause for embarrassment on my part. I thank you for acknowledging the bulk of my position.