Personally, I absolutely love the idea of a multiverse, and sincerely hope that the concept is true. (Surely an infinite Creator God could create an infinite number of universes.) However, I do agree that, until someone figures out a way that we could actually detect another universe, the whole notion is simply not science. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)
I think the fine tuning has merit, but only when bundled with several other arguments and not stand alone. By itself, fine tuning can be all too easily countered with the rain puddle analogy:
Q: "Isn't it amazing that this depression is exactly the size and shape needed to contain this rain water?"
Multiverse in relation to God is an interesting concept. For example, would all have experienced a fall? Or are there some where the knowledge of good and evil never occurred and man is in perpetual innocence?
You don't need a multiverse to raise that question. C.S. Lewis covered it in his Space Trilogy. In the first novel, Out of the Silent Planet, Lewis gives us a description of an unfallen world populated by multiple intelligent species. In the second, Perelandra, we see a world at the "Eden" stage (neither fallen nor unfallen, depending on the choices made in the story). The third (and in my opinion, the best) novel, That Hideous Strength, takes place entirely on our own sadly very much fallen planet.
In my humble opinion, they are the best things Lewis ever wrote. (I know others will disagree with me. The consensus amongst literary critics is Till We Have Faces is Lewis's masterpiece, but I beg to differ.)
Starhopper: Q: "Isn't it amazing that this depression is exactly the size and shape needed to contain this rain water?"
Of course, the correct answer is yes, it is amazing! Genuinely perplexing! It takes quantum mechanics and general relativity to produce that wondrous effect, and our best minds, after century upon century of investigation, still understand it to only a limited degree.
But sure, if you take all the amazing parts for granted, then it's not very surprising that a universe embodying this vast and sublime edifice of physics acts according to the way it acts, I guess.
I hope you enjoy then as much as I did. The science in them is terribly dated nowadays, but in the 1930s it was still possible to believe that Mars and Venus were (physically) much as Lewis described them. Be sure to read them in order! They build upon one another.
And it wouldn't hurt to start by reading First Men in the Moon by H.G. Wells, if you haven't already done so, because to a large extent, Out of the Silent Planet is Lewis's answer to that book. (And in any event, Wells's novel is a "cracking good read" in itself.)
Only one book at a time? I can never seem to manage reading less than 7 or 8 at once. Here's what I'm in the middle of right now:
Grant, by Chernow (90 pages left, out of 959) Hitler Moves East, by Paul Carrell (on page 178, out of 672) The Bastard War, the Mesopotamian Campaign of 1914-1918, by A.J. Barker (on page 94, out of 411) The Iliad, by Homer (I read this one decades ago, figured it was time for a re-read. On page 546, out of 614.) Last and First Men/Star Maker, by Olaf Stapledon (I read this one back in the 1970s, and it's been on my mind a lot lately. On page 127, out of 438.) Fascism, a Warning, by Madeleine Albright (on page 185, 0ut of 254)
I may have missed 1 or 2, but that's pretty much it for now. And that doesn't count G.K. Chesterton's The Everlasting Man which sits in my car, so I'll have something to read when in doctors' waiting rooms, etc., or Divine Mercy in my Soul by Saint Faustina Kowalska on my nightstand, which I dip into every night before going to sleep. And of course, I am perpetually re-re-re-reading The Bible. (I'm in the middle of Isaiah and Luke right now.)
I do typically read one at a time - reading is one of the few areas where I do manage to exceed the attention span of a house fly. Other than the Iliad (and Bible of course) I've never even heard of any of those. You look like a history buff.
I used to read a lot about the Civil War and WWII eras when I was younger, but for the past several years I've been hooked into the fantasy genre. It has the most vibrant characters.
My reading goes in cycles. A month ago, and it would have been almost entirely classic science fiction. I just recently finished The Stars are Ours by Andre Norton, The World of Null A by A.E. Van Vogt, The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester, I, Robot by Isaac Asimov, a volume of short stories by Stanley G. Weinbaum, The Space Merchants by Frederik Pohl and Cyril Kornbluth, and Dune by Frank Herbert. All in the past 6 weeks or so.
Who knows what I'll be reading next month? I've got about 6 books taxiing on the runway, waiting for permission to take off.
Several of the books on that list were re-reads of adolescent favorites.
Interesting memory: I was secretly reading The Stars are Ours in class (instead of doing what I was supposed to be doing) when word came over the intercom that President Kennedy had just been shot. When reading it again earlier this year, I was actually able to identify the very page I was on when I heard the news.
20 comments:
There was so much wrong with those multiverse proponents that it was laughable.
Personally, I absolutely love the idea of a multiverse, and sincerely hope that the concept is true. (Surely an infinite Creator God could create an infinite number of universes.) However, I do agree that, until someone figures out a way that we could actually detect another universe, the whole notion is simply not science. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)
Also, note that this was 'Bad News' for the idea of fine-tuning.
I think the fine tuning has merit, but only when bundled with several other arguments and not stand alone. By itself, fine tuning can be all too easily countered with the rain puddle analogy:
Q: "Isn't it amazing that this depression is exactly the size and shape needed to contain this rain water?"
A: "What else would you expect?"
Aaaurgh! That should have read, "I think the fine tuning argument"...
Multiverse in relation to God is an interesting concept. For example, would all have experienced a fall? Or are there some where the knowledge of good and evil never occurred and man is in perpetual innocence?
You don't need a multiverse to raise that question. C.S. Lewis covered it in his Space Trilogy. In the first novel, Out of the Silent Planet, Lewis gives us a description of an unfallen world populated by multiple intelligent species. In the second, Perelandra, we see a world at the "Eden" stage (neither fallen nor unfallen, depending on the choices made in the story). The third (and in my opinion, the best) novel, That Hideous Strength, takes place entirely on our own sadly very much fallen planet.
I had never heard of that trilogy. Are they a good read?
In my humble opinion, they are the best things Lewis ever wrote. (I know others will disagree with me. The consensus amongst literary critics is Till We Have Faces is Lewis's masterpiece, but I beg to differ.)
Starhopper: Q: "Isn't it amazing that this depression is exactly the size and shape needed to contain this rain water?"
Of course, the correct answer is yes, it is amazing! Genuinely perplexing! It takes quantum mechanics and general relativity to produce that wondrous effect, and our best minds, after century upon century of investigation, still understand it to only a limited degree.
But sure, if you take all the amazing parts for granted, then it's not very surprising that a universe embodying this vast and sublime edifice of physics acts according to the way it acts, I guess.
I'll have to check them out, I'm always on the lookout for a good book series. Thanks!
I use Schleiermacher;s feeling of utter ripened as a decision making paradigm for belief God.
on Metacrock's log
Legion,
I hope you enjoy then as much as I did. The science in them is terribly dated nowadays, but in the 1930s it was still possible to believe that Mars and Venus were (physically) much as Lewis described them. Be sure to read them in order! They build upon one another.
And it wouldn't hurt to start by reading First Men in the Moon by H.G. Wells, if you haven't already done so, because to a large extent, Out of the Silent Planet is Lewis's answer to that book. (And in any event, Wells's novel is a "cracking good read" in itself.)
I'm doing a re-read of the Lord of the Rings at the moment, but I'll hit up Wells and Lewis afterward.
Only one book at a time? I can never seem to manage reading less than 7 or 8 at once. Here's what I'm in the middle of right now:
Grant, by Chernow (90 pages left, out of 959)
Hitler Moves East, by Paul Carrell (on page 178, out of 672)
The Bastard War, the Mesopotamian Campaign of 1914-1918, by A.J. Barker (on page 94, out of 411)
The Iliad, by Homer (I read this one decades ago, figured it was time for a re-read. On page 546, out of 614.)
Last and First Men/Star Maker, by Olaf Stapledon (I read this one back in the 1970s, and it's been on my mind a lot lately. On page 127, out of 438.)
Fascism, a Warning, by Madeleine Albright (on page 185, 0ut of 254)
I may have missed 1 or 2, but that's pretty much it for now. And that doesn't count G.K. Chesterton's The Everlasting Man which sits in my car, so I'll have something to read when in doctors' waiting rooms, etc., or Divine Mercy in my Soul by Saint Faustina Kowalska on my nightstand, which I dip into every night before going to sleep. And of course, I am perpetually re-re-re-reading The Bible. (I'm in the middle of Isaiah and Luke right now.)
I do typically read one at a time - reading is one of the few areas where I do manage to exceed the attention span of a house fly. Other than the Iliad (and Bible of course) I've never even heard of any of those. You look like a history buff.
I used to read a lot about the Civil War and WWII eras when I was younger, but for the past several years I've been hooked into the fantasy genre. It has the most vibrant characters.
My reading goes in cycles. A month ago, and it would have been almost entirely classic science fiction. I just recently finished The Stars are Ours by Andre Norton, The World of Null A by A.E. Van Vogt, The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester, I, Robot by Isaac Asimov, a volume of short stories by Stanley G. Weinbaum, The Space Merchants by Frederik Pohl and Cyril Kornbluth, and Dune by Frank Herbert. All in the past 6 weeks or so.
Who knows what I'll be reading next month? I've got about 6 books taxiing on the runway, waiting for permission to take off.
Ah, I love some Dune every now and again.
Several of the books on that list were re-reads of adolescent favorites.
Interesting memory: I was secretly reading The Stars are Ours in class (instead of doing what I was supposed to be doing) when word came over the intercom that President Kennedy had just been shot. When reading it again earlier this year, I was actually able to identify the very page I was on when I heard the news.
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