Kirby write 'No clever argument or inescapable syllogism brought me to this point, but rather the softening of my heart after so many years of refusing Christ to be able to say in truth, and with dreadful certainty, "I need you."'
I, for one, grew to love him for his efforts with the Open Scrolls Project, the Early Christian and Judaic Writings sites, and his long defunct and badly spammed blog... Now, if he's one of those Catholics that accepts Protestants--or, perhaps, heretical Protestants :), I can call him my brother. Sweet.
I am curious to what extent Kirby has become a Catholic in the sense of religious experience (seeking to know God, praying, worshipping and fellowshipping during mass), and to what extent he has become a Catholic in a doctrinal sense of what the Catholic church says its members must believe and do.
What's interesting about Catholicism is that many priests who have studied and prayed or meditated with those of other faiths have found overlapping areas of religious/psychological experience and practices. Dom Bede Griffiths comes to mind in this respect, as does William Johnson (author of The Inner Eye of Love), Thomas Merton's Eastern Journal, Matthew Fox's books, and Catholic theologians such as Rahner and Kung, who have tried to get the church to acknowledge that good people in other faiths might be considered "anonymous Christians." Even Alan Watts, who began with a love of near Catholic high Anglican worship and who obtained a degree in Anglican divinity, and then who began to study Christian mystics, translated The Cloud of Unknowing, and then began studying and comparing western and eastern mysticism in books like Behold the Spirit. There is also a person whose testimony in "Leaving the Fold" was that of leaving conservative Christianity for eastern mysticism.
Also of interest is that Dr. Robert M. Price (one of my oldest friends, whom I knew before he obtained his first Ph.D. and when he was a campus minister), is like Kirby, a "naturalist" who sees value in attending church. Dr. Price has also studied Christian theology quite thoroughly and remains a fan of many of Paul Tillich's theological and psychological insights and views. So Price is sort of a "Protestant naturalist" while Kirby has become a "Catholic naturalist."
Or perhaps rather than Price (and his semi-autobiographical book, The Reason-Driven Life), Kirby might be more appreciative at this time of the works of controversial American Catholic, Gary Wills?
I hope Kirby will let us all know what he continues to discover as his journey continues, and what he is both feeling, and reading.
Speaking in general, if someone has a positive personal experience of being drawn toward God or toward a particular form of worship or particular church, they may take that positive internal experience as a sign that the doctrines of that particular church are therefore superior to the rest. Or they might not go so far as that, but they might thereafter wish to fill up on positive books about that particular church and its doctrines and sacraments and history. Conversely, they might also shy away from negative statements regarding that particular church's doctrines, history of dogma, schisms, questionable decisions of the church and/or its leaders, etc.
I have many questions myself regarding the Catholic church, it's doctrines and history, that do not allow me to accede to their explanatory doctrines and beliefs and practices. But that does not mean I could not be the friend of a Catholic, or of a person of any faith for that matter.
Cheers, Ed
FAVORITE QUOTATIONS
During my life I have made countless friends by arguing - I am a Northerner living in the South, a Jew in the most Gentile community on the continent, an integrationist among white supremacists. I have a lot to argue about. But I have made friends over discussing a difference of opinion because I make my mind up about what I believe, but I do not make my mind up about people. - Harry Golden, columnist who wrote during the 1940s to 1960s in the Southern U.S.
I'm not offended by Pagan, Jewish, Muslim, Protestant, or Atheist viewpoints in fiction. Or in non-fiction, for that matter. I may disagree - but I'm almost certain to disagree with any author at some point. To anyone who equates disagreement with hatred, I say, "Bosnia!" - Gene Wolfe (award winning Sci-Fi author)
What is the best book in the world? I'd say that even the best book remains a mere book, and not life itself. Even the best book is one that can eventually bore you, if only through repetition. Be open to the best in every person, every experience and every book, and use your better judgment, built upon a lifetime of your own experiences. Books are not life, and cannot lead your life for you. You must decide. Even Bible believers have to decide which passages in Scripture deserve greater emphasis than others. And if an action commends itself to your conscience you don't need a book to also tell you whether it is "good" or not. - Edward T. Babinski
5 comments:
Thanks for the news. It would be fascinating to hear his conversion (or re-conversion?) story. Does anyone know if and/or where it can be found?
Kirby write 'No clever argument or inescapable syllogism brought me to this point, but rather the softening of my heart after so many years of refusing Christ to be able to say in truth, and with dreadful certainty, "I need you."'
I, for one, grew to love him for his efforts with the Open Scrolls Project, the Early Christian and Judaic Writings sites, and his long defunct and badly spammed blog... Now, if he's one of those Catholics that accepts Protestants--or, perhaps, heretical Protestants :), I can call him my brother. Sweet.
I am curious to what extent Kirby has become a Catholic in the sense of religious experience (seeking to know God, praying, worshipping and fellowshipping during mass), and to what extent he has become a Catholic in a doctrinal sense of what the Catholic church says its members must believe and do.
What's interesting about Catholicism is that many priests who have studied and prayed or meditated with those of other faiths have found overlapping areas of religious/psychological experience and practices. Dom Bede Griffiths comes to mind in this respect, as does William Johnson (author of The Inner Eye of Love), Thomas Merton's Eastern Journal, Matthew Fox's books, and Catholic theologians such as Rahner and Kung, who have tried to get the church to acknowledge that good people in other faiths might be considered "anonymous Christians." Even Alan Watts, who began with a love of near Catholic high Anglican worship and who obtained a degree in Anglican divinity, and then who began to study Christian mystics, translated The Cloud of Unknowing, and then began studying and comparing western and eastern mysticism in books like Behold the Spirit. There is also a person whose testimony in "Leaving the Fold" was that of leaving conservative Christianity for eastern mysticism.
Also of interest is that Dr. Robert M. Price (one of my oldest friends, whom I knew before he obtained his first Ph.D. and when he was a campus minister), is like Kirby, a "naturalist" who sees value in attending church. Dr. Price has also studied Christian theology quite thoroughly and remains a fan of many of Paul Tillich's theological and psychological insights and views. So Price is sort of a "Protestant naturalist" while Kirby has become a "Catholic naturalist."
Or perhaps rather than Price (and his semi-autobiographical book, The Reason-Driven Life), Kirby might be more appreciative at this time of the works of controversial American Catholic, Gary Wills?
I hope Kirby will let us all know what he continues to discover as his journey continues, and what he is both feeling, and reading.
Speaking in general, if someone has a positive personal experience of being drawn toward God or toward a particular form of worship or particular church, they may take that positive internal experience as a sign that the doctrines of that particular church are therefore superior to the rest. Or they might not go so far as that, but they might thereafter wish to fill up on positive books about that particular church and its doctrines and sacraments and history. Conversely, they might also shy away from negative statements regarding that particular church's doctrines, history of dogma, schisms, questionable decisions of the church and/or its leaders, etc.
I have many questions myself regarding the Catholic church, it's doctrines and history, that do not allow me to accede to their explanatory doctrines and beliefs and practices. But that does not mean I could not be the friend of a Catholic, or of a person of any faith for that matter.
Cheers,
Ed
FAVORITE QUOTATIONS
During my life I have made countless friends by arguing - I am a Northerner living in the South, a Jew in the most Gentile community on the continent, an integrationist among white supremacists. I have a lot to argue about. But I have made friends over discussing a difference of opinion because I make my mind up about what I believe, but I do not make my mind up about people.
- Harry Golden, columnist who wrote during the 1940s to 1960s in the Southern U.S.
I'm not offended by Pagan, Jewish, Muslim, Protestant, or Atheist viewpoints in fiction. Or in non-fiction, for that matter. I may disagree - but I'm almost certain to disagree with any author at some point. To anyone who equates disagreement with hatred, I say, "Bosnia!"
- Gene Wolfe (award winning Sci-Fi author)
What is the best book in the world? I'd say that even the best book remains a mere book, and not life itself. Even the best book is one that can eventually bore you, if only through repetition. Be open to the best in every person, every experience and every book, and use your better judgment, built upon a lifetime of your own experiences. Books are not life, and cannot lead your life for you. You must decide. Even Bible believers have to decide which passages in Scripture deserve greater emphasis than others. And if an action commends itself to your conscience you don't need a book to also tell you whether it is "good" or not.
- Edward T. Babinski
Peter explains all at
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=206079
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