Here's a Christian who says they do. The implication is that they really know in their hearts that there is a God, but are suppressing it.
Here's a Christian who says they do. The implication is that they really know in their hearts that there is a God, but are suppressing it.
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I really hate it when people ascribe motives to me whan (a) I don't think they have any understanding of me, and (b) I think they are mistaken. For example, when non-believers tell me I only believe because ..... [select one]. I think it's generally better to be very wary of doing the same myself.
So I think this guy is ill-advised in what he says. Is he aiming to aggravate atheists (and sympathisers)? I think atheist motivations, like christian motivations, are much more complex than he says.
Bill Vallicella defends the opposite from this guy.
https://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/maverick_philosopher/2010/05/is-atheism-intellectually-respectable-on-romans-11820.html
The linked article in the response (not the OP) says Paul is resorting to ad hominem attacks and not doing anything to prove that there is a creator.
For a Christian who believes the Bible, Paul isn't just relating his own thoughts - his words are inspired by God. Thus it isn't Paul who is making the accusation, but God, and God can indeed identify motives. Thus, Christians can make the charge that atheists know there is a God but willfully deny it, based upon an external authority that isn't simply a fallacious attack based on their own opinion.
What Christians can't do is make the charge in a manner that will convince an atheist.
Good point Kevin.
But then doesn't this miss the point?
What Christians can't do is make the charge in a manner that will convince an atheist.
If it's the case that the accusation is correct, then the atheist is already convinced. Maybe it will just make them hate you too if you tell them the truth.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.
I don't have any of the ten motivations Muehlenberg ascribes to me. It certainly fits the public persona of many prominent atheists, but then again, it fits the public persona of many prominent theists.
Atheists do not spend all their time and energy hating on and railing against flying spaghetti monsters for the simple reason that they know there are no such things.
Also, because no one assumes we are evil for failing to believe in flying spaghetti monsters. I don't rail against God/some god/gods, I don't even think about the issue except when I visit locations like this. I rail against the assumptions and cultural pressures around my atheism.
"Thus, Christians can make the charge that atheists know there is a God but willfully deny it, based upon an external authority that isn't simply a fallacious attack based on their own opinion."
That sounds fine, Kevin, but how many times have christians (and Jews too) misunderstood their scriptures, thinking they say things with more certainty than is justified? How often have we/they re-interpreted some scriptures and refused to re-interpret others? Have we/they always been consistent? And, looking back, always been right? I think if we look back at scripture interpretation in Jesus's day, and down through history, we would be unwilling to be as sure as you express here. I thinbk safer not to ascribe motives when we don't know.
I agree with unkleE. Second paragraph:
Of course they hate God. Their entire life screams out this hatred.
Muehlenberg may understand his God but he shows little understanding of his fellow human beings. Speaking as a sheep, I'm not sure I'd want to share the same fold.
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