The distinguished historian Bernard Lewis, author of What Went Wrong? The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East, gives (naturally) a host of explanations for Islam's woeful inability to keep abreast of Christendom. But to me his most fascinating hypothesis is that Islam from the very start never had anything to offer either its own people or the rest of the world. The sole reason for its so-called "Golden Age" was its good fortune (good for it, that is) to have conquered the Eastern Roman Empire at the zenith of its own civilization. For centuries, Islam then parasitically lived off the intellectual loot it had fortuitously acquired by this conquest, sucking it dry and regurgitating its wisdom with an Islamic veneer. This is the source of Islam's Medieval architectural triumphs, its philosophical contributions, and its artistic achievements - all of them basically stolen from the Byzantines. However, once the ill-gotten booty was exhausted, the Islamic "civilization", which had never made the slightest attempt to actually add to what it had taken possession of by military conquest, stagnated and became intellectually irrelevant to subsequent history.
The idea that the Catholic Church had a choke-hold on all of Europe throughout that Middle/Dark ages has been so thoroughly and frequently refuted that it is laughable. For much of the Middle Ages secular political leaders were deciding who should get leadership positions in the Church. Oh yeah, and everybody back then thought the earth was flat until Columbus proved them wrong.
It's time to sing Oceanfront Property one more time.
"The idea that the Catholic Church had a choke-hold on all of Europe throughout that Middle/Dark ages has been so thoroughly and frequently refuted that it is laughable."
Yes, I've heard the apologetic claptrap about how wonderful it was. Oh, and they invented the plow. See? Science wasn't dead during the dark ages. It was only in a coma.
I'm not even saying it was wonderful. But the century we ended 15 years ago, the century that had the greatest scientific and technological advancement of all time, also outstripped all prior generations in genocide.
Perhaps that century would be a better candidate of "the Dark Ages" than Middle Ages.
The only reason the 20th century saw more deaths than any other is because there were ore people to kill.
But in answer to your original question: What happened to the science and cultural achievements of the Islamic golden age? It is the same thing that happened to Europe after the fall of Rome. It was stifled by religion.
"The only reason the 20th century saw more deaths than any other is because there were ore people to kill."
"The only reason Stalin and Hitler killed more people than the Inquisition is that Torquemadadidn't have gas chambers and machine guns." Dr Michael Shermer.
Explain that to all the people killed by Genghis Khan. From the History Channel website:
6. He was responsible for the deaths of as many as 40 million people. While it’s impossible to know for sure how many people perished during the Mongol conquests, many historians put the number at somewhere around 40 million. Censuses from the Middle Ages show that the population of China plummeted by tens of millions during the Khan’s lifetime, and scholars estimate that he may have killed a full three-fourths of modern-day Iran’s population during his war with the Khwarezmid Empire. All told, the Mongols’ attacks may have reduced the entire world population by as much as 11 percent.
"... But to me his most fascinating hypothesis is that Islam from the very start never had anything to offer either its own people or the rest of the world. The sole reason for its so-called "Golden Age" was its good fortune (good for it, that is) to have conquered the Eastern Roman Empire at the zenith of its own civilization. For centuries, Islam then parasitically lived off the intellectual loot it had fortuitously acquired by this conquest, sucking it dry and regurgitating its wisdom with an Islamic veneer. This is the source of Islam's Medieval architectural triumphs, its philosophical contributions, and its artistic achievements - all of them basically stolen from the Byzantines. However, once the ill-gotten booty was exhausted, the Islamic "civilization", which had never made the slightest attempt to actually add to what it had taken possession of by military conquest, stagnated and became intellectually irrelevant to subsequent history."
For a slightly fuller picture, one might take into account the Islamic leeching off their bloody conquests of the civilizations of Persia (officially Zoroastrian, with large numbers of Christians and Jews) and India (majority Hindu/Buddhist).
Nevertheless, the essential thesis is correct -- Islam *never* had anything to offer mankind with respect to building-up civilization. Islam has always and *only* been a force for barbarism.
=== Shallow thinkers, especially when they are "thinking" in the politically correct ruts permitted by leftist, will (with increasing frequency) say something like, "Islam needs a Reformation".
Not only does that statement misrepresent the history of Christendom and what the Protestant Reformation was about and what it accomplished, but it also misses the fact that what we are seeing in the world today *is* the Islamic Reformation.
Christianity may well lose large swaths of Europe to the Mohammedans within the next generation or so, but that merely means the global center of Christendom will move somewhat to the south and east. Christianity is growing at a rate far faster than population growth in both Sub-Saharan Africa and in China.
If current trends hold, by the end of this century Christians in China will outnumber those in North America.
A little-followed event is the ongoing lightning fast (from an historical perspective) Christianizing of Cambodia. This country, which has never before had any significant Christian population, is set to repeat what happened in Korea a century ago, and become a majority-Christian nation within a decade or so.
Vietnam, which has for many years had a sizable Catholic minority, is experiencing an unprecedentedly powerful religious revival. For an eyewitness testimony of this, the pastor of my lowly parish recently returned from that country. News of his visit reached one small village in the Muong region, and he was greeted by tens of thousands of people, many of whom had traveled (on foot!) for up to 3 days (!!!), just to be present at the Mass he celebrated in the tiny local church. He said the crowd spilled out of the church doors, filled the main square of the village, and spread out into the surrounding countryside for as far as he could see.
My own daughter, who has spent a lot of time in West Africa, told me (and showed me the photographs she took) of churches going up all over the place and filling up faster than they could build them.
And don't write Europe off just yet. There is every chance that Pope Francis may pull off a miracle, and re-energize that continent, starting from Poland. Attendees to next year's World Youth Day in Krakow are expected to exceed the population of the host city!
I'll-say-both-A-and-not-A-if-that's-what-it-takes: "So Victor agrees with me that there have always been ruthless mass-killers in human history. I'm glad we got that settled."
I presume that most readers of this blog have noticed the little joke that I-pretend-to-be-honest-and-rational has slipped into his post.
For those who haven't been following along -- when it suits his purpose, I'm-a-liar-and-damned-proud-of-it likes to blame "religion", by which he generally means Judeo-Christianity, for pretty much any atrocity of the past 2000 years (and none of the good). Then, when others point to the bloodbaths that seem *always* to follow from atheists getting their grubby paws of the levers of State violence-and-coercion, suddenly the behavior of atheists has nothing to do with the beliefs of atheists.
And *now*, after VR makes mention of the heaps of corpses that the Mongols deliberately piled up in their bid to conquer the world, I'm-a-damned-liar-and-tickled-pink-to-be-one is trying to present himself as having always been advocating the view that there seems to be something about (*) human beings that, from time to time, and for no apparent causes, leads to the emergence of ruthless mass-murderers … excuse me, “ruthless mass-killers” … in human history
(*) Dare one say, “there seems to be something *wrong* with human beings”? And, if one does that, should one ball one’s fists up over one’s eyes lest one notice that one is invoking a universal-and-transcendent … and discoverable … moral code to make the judgment?
"Dare one say, “there seems to be something *wrong* with human beings”? And, if one does that, should one ball one’s fists up over one’s eyes lest one notice that one is invoking a universal-and-transcendent … and discoverable … moral code to make the judgment?"
And dare one say that Mankind is... //wait for it//... "fallen"?
For the record, I never tried to blame religion for any and all atrocities of the past 2000 years. I have pointed out that religion certainly is responsible for its share, and that the 20th century isn't so different from the rest of history. What's common to all of them is a destructive ideology, whether it is religion or communism, or something else.
Now, if Ilion had an ounce of honesty, he would simply allow me to speak for myself instead of lying about my position. But as we can all plainly see, he doesn't.
Unlike most of Europe during the dark ages, there was real scientific advancement in the early Islamic culture, and certainly not just what they inherited from the Byzantines (who inherited their culture form the Greeks).
18 comments:
You ask, "What Happened?"
The distinguished historian Bernard Lewis, author of What Went Wrong? The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East, gives (naturally) a host of explanations for Islam's woeful inability to keep abreast of Christendom. But to me his most fascinating hypothesis is that Islam from the very start never had anything to offer either its own people or the rest of the world. The sole reason for its so-called "Golden Age" was its good fortune (good for it, that is) to have conquered the Eastern Roman Empire at the zenith of its own civilization. For centuries, Islam then parasitically lived off the intellectual loot it had fortuitously acquired by this conquest, sucking it dry and regurgitating its wisdom with an Islamic veneer. This is the source of Islam's Medieval architectural triumphs, its philosophical contributions, and its artistic achievements - all of them basically stolen from the Byzantines. However, once the ill-gotten booty was exhausted, the Islamic "civilization", which had never made the slightest attempt to actually add to what it had taken possession of by military conquest, stagnated and became intellectually irrelevant to subsequent history.
Jezu ufam tobie!
Right, Bob. Islam was in it's golden age while Europe was in the dark ages under the yoke of the Christian church.
The idea that the Catholic Church had a choke-hold on all of Europe throughout that Middle/Dark ages has been so thoroughly and frequently refuted that it is laughable. For much of the Middle Ages secular political leaders were deciding who should get leadership positions in the Church. Oh yeah, and everybody back then thought the earth was flat until Columbus proved them wrong.
It's time to sing Oceanfront Property one more time.
"The idea that the Catholic Church had a choke-hold on all of Europe throughout that Middle/Dark ages has been so thoroughly and frequently refuted that it is laughable."
Yes, I've heard the apologetic claptrap about how wonderful it was. Oh, and they invented the plow. See? Science wasn't dead during the dark ages. It was only in a coma.
I'm not even saying it was wonderful. But the century we ended 15 years ago, the century that had the greatest scientific and technological advancement of all time, also outstripped all prior generations in genocide.
Perhaps that century would be a better candidate of "the Dark Ages" than Middle Ages.
The only reason the 20th century saw more deaths than any other is because there were ore people to kill.
But in answer to your original question: What happened to the science and cultural achievements of the Islamic golden age? It is the same thing that happened to Europe after the fall of Rome. It was stifled by religion.
"The only reason the 20th century saw more deaths than any other is because there were ore people to kill."
"The only reason Stalin and Hitler killed more people than the Inquisition is that Torquemadadidn't have gas chambers and machine guns." Dr Michael Shermer.
Quite right. Just think of how much more killing the biblical Hebrews would have accomplished if they has modern weapons.
Explain that to all the people killed by Genghis Khan. From the History Channel website:
6. He was responsible for the deaths of as many as 40 million people.
While it’s impossible to know for sure how many people perished during the Mongol conquests, many historians put the number at somewhere around 40 million. Censuses from the Middle Ages show that the population of China plummeted by tens of millions during the Khan’s lifetime, and scholars estimate that he may have killed a full three-fourths of modern-day Iran’s population during his war with the Khwarezmid Empire. All told, the Mongols’ attacks may have reduced the entire world population by as much as 11 percent.
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-genghis-khan
"... But to me his most fascinating hypothesis is that Islam from the very start never had anything to offer either its own people or the rest of the world. The sole reason for its so-called "Golden Age" was its good fortune (good for it, that is) to have conquered the Eastern Roman Empire at the zenith of its own civilization. For centuries, Islam then parasitically lived off the intellectual loot it had fortuitously acquired by this conquest, sucking it dry and regurgitating its wisdom with an Islamic veneer. This is the source of Islam's Medieval architectural triumphs, its philosophical contributions, and its artistic achievements - all of them basically stolen from the Byzantines. However, once the ill-gotten booty was exhausted, the Islamic "civilization", which had never made the slightest attempt to actually add to what it had taken possession of by military conquest, stagnated and became intellectually irrelevant to subsequent history."
For a slightly fuller picture, one might take into account the Islamic leeching off their bloody conquests of the civilizations of Persia (officially Zoroastrian, with large numbers of Christians and Jews) and India (majority Hindu/Buddhist).
Nevertheless, the essential thesis is correct -- Islam *never* had anything to offer mankind with respect to building-up civilization. Islam has always and *only* been a force for barbarism.
===
Shallow thinkers, especially when they are "thinking" in the politically correct ruts permitted by leftist, will (with increasing frequency) say something like, "Islam needs a Reformation".
Not only does that statement misrepresent the history of Christendom and what the Protestant Reformation was about and what it accomplished, but it also misses the fact that what we are seeing in the world today *is* the Islamic Reformation.
Christianity may well lose large swaths of Europe to the Mohammedans within the next generation or so, but that merely means the global center of Christendom will move somewhat to the south and east. Christianity is growing at a rate far faster than population growth in both Sub-Saharan Africa and in China.
If current trends hold, by the end of this century Christians in China will outnumber those in North America.
A little-followed event is the ongoing lightning fast (from an historical perspective) Christianizing of Cambodia. This country, which has never before had any significant Christian population, is set to repeat what happened in Korea a century ago, and become a majority-Christian nation within a decade or so.
Vietnam, which has for many years had a sizable Catholic minority, is experiencing an unprecedentedly powerful religious revival. For an eyewitness testimony of this, the pastor of my lowly parish recently returned from that country. News of his visit reached one small village in the Muong region, and he was greeted by tens of thousands of people, many of whom had traveled (on foot!) for up to 3 days (!!!), just to be present at the Mass he celebrated in the tiny local church. He said the crowd spilled out of the church doors, filled the main square of the village, and spread out into the surrounding countryside for as far as he could see.
My own daughter, who has spent a lot of time in West Africa, told me (and showed me the photographs she took) of churches going up all over the place and filling up faster than they could build them.
And don't write Europe off just yet. There is every chance that Pope Francis may pull off a miracle, and re-energize that continent, starting from Poland. Attendees to next year's World Youth Day in Krakow are expected to exceed the population of the host city!
Jezu ufam tobie!
"Explain that to all the people killed by Genghis Khan."
So Victor agrees with me that there have always been ruthless mass-killers in human history. I'm glad we got that settled.
I'll-say-both-A-and-not-A-if-that's-what-it-takes: "So Victor agrees with me that there have always been ruthless mass-killers in human history. I'm glad we got that settled."
I presume that most readers of this blog have noticed the little joke that I-pretend-to-be-honest-and-rational has slipped into his post.
For those who haven't been following along -- when it suits his purpose, I'm-a-liar-and-damned-proud-of-it likes to blame "religion", by which he generally means Judeo-Christianity, for pretty much any atrocity of the past 2000 years (and none of the good). Then, when others point to the bloodbaths that seem *always* to follow from atheists getting their grubby paws of the levers of State violence-and-coercion, suddenly the behavior of atheists has nothing to do with the beliefs of atheists.
And *now*, after VR makes mention of the heaps of corpses that the Mongols deliberately piled up in their bid to conquer the world, I'm-a-damned-liar-and-tickled-pink-to-be-one is trying to present himself as having always been advocating the view that there seems to be something about (*) human beings that, from time to time, and for no apparent causes, leads to the emergence of ruthless mass-murderers … excuse me, “ruthless mass-killers” … in human history
(*) Dare one say, “there seems to be something *wrong* with human beings”? And, if one does that, should one ball one’s fists up over one’s eyes lest one notice that one is invoking a universal-and-transcendent … and discoverable … moral code to make the judgment?
"Dare one say, “there seems to be something *wrong* with human beings”? And, if one does that, should one ball one’s fists up over one’s eyes lest one notice that one is invoking a universal-and-transcendent … and discoverable … moral code to make the judgment?"
And dare one say that Mankind is... //wait for it//... "fallen"?
Jezu ufam tobie!
For the record, I never tried to blame religion for any and all atrocities of the past 2000 years. I have pointed out that religion certainly is responsible for its share, and that the 20th century isn't so different from the rest of history. What's common to all of them is a destructive ideology, whether it is religion or communism, or something else.
Now, if Ilion had an ounce of honesty, he would simply allow me to speak for myself instead of lying about my position. But as we can all plainly see, he doesn't.
And dare one say that Mankind is... //wait for it//... "evolved from animals"?
I totally agree with B Prokop. Some have argued that the Islamic Golden Age happened in spite of Islam.
A lot of the great thinkers in the Islamic Golden Age would probably be considered apostates.
Aragorn,
Unlike most of Europe during the dark ages, there was real scientific advancement in the early Islamic culture, and certainly not just what they inherited from the Byzantines (who inherited their culture form the Greeks).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
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