This is a blog to discuss philosophy, chess, politics,
C. S. Lewis, or whatever it is that I'm in the mood to discuss.
Tuesday, October 10, 2006
Infidelguy interview cancelled
The interview I was going to do with the Infidelguy was cancelled a couple of weeks back, and it looks as if we will no tbe able to reschedule. This is NOT my fault, but I do not feel it necessary to discuss any of the details beyond that.
A recent interesting debate at debunking christianity about the fact that there are very different (often violently different) interpretations of the same scripture. Loftus poses the following question:
Either God was not clear in his revelation about these issues, or the Holy Spirit isn't doing his job in illuminating the truth of the Bible, or God doesn't care what Christians believe.
While I play devil's advocate over there (I think this strategy of argument is just lame), I was wondering how a reflective Christian would respond to it.
My response was:
Pointing out disagreements to undermine a theory is a Creatinist tactic I hope skeptics don't stoop to. Dawkins vs Gould. Churchland vs Fodor. String theory versus whatever.
I understand the rhetorical point, but this argument strategy is weak. People struggling to understand texts that they think God had some role in creating is not evidence that God doesn't exist. Those that struggle are chosen, as they are showing how seriously that take God's word. It doesn't matter which particular number of angels on the pin they end up believing in. They at least work to see the meaning of his words.
There are enough questions, both philosophical and theological to fill heaven and earth with a million Christianities and other religions as well.
The fact that people who agree the Bible is "inspired and/or an inerrant/infallible" source for all sorts of "teachings" but can't agree what those teachings should be, should at least make one pause.
Have any of the “religions of the book” noted how quietly the Deity endures the writing of innumerable books all claiming to speak for Him/Her/Them/It? Surely any Deity that thought their exact words were vitally important would have “zapped” every scribe, printing press, or website, that dared to put false ones into the Deity’s mouth. But such “zapping” only appears to have taken place on extremely rare occasions, while new words of the Deity (as well as controversial translations and interpretations of older words) continue to flood the world in a veritable deluge of “God said this, God teaches that-ness.” Could it be that the Deity’s exact words do not matter as much to the Deity as they do to those who believe in “religions of the book?”
E.T.B. ____________________________
It is not easy to account for an infinite God making people so low in the scale of intellect as to require a revelation. Neither is it easy to perceive why, if a revelation was necessary for all, it was made only to a few.
Robert Ingersoll, Some Mistakes of Moses ____________________________
All that God wants us to do is clearly revealed in the Bible...and the Talmud and the Koran and the Book of Mormon and the works of L. Ron Hubbard. These holy writings tell us what God want us to do, often in the form of revealing anecdotes...The problem is that many of us don’t have the vaguest idea what these anecdotes reveal.
Dave Barry, “At the Risk of Being Smitten” ____________________________
Holy Scripture: A book sent down from heaven. Holy Scripture contains all that a Christian should know and believe provided he adds to it a million or so commentaries.
Voltaire, Dictionary of Theology ____________________________
By the time the Christian churches finalized their New [and Improved] Testament it was 300 years after Jesus had died and they were editing it right up to the last minute--including three known different endings to the last chapter of Mark, and a few letters that appeared so late that the apostles who allegedly wrote them were already dead. For additional “last minute” changes see, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament and Misquoting Jesus, both by Bart D. Ehrman
E.T.B. ____________________________
The dogma of the infallibility of the Bible is no more self-evident that is that of the infallibility of the Pope.
Thomas Henry Huxley, Essays Upon Some Controverted Questions ____________________________
EXCERPT FROM A TALE BY EDGAR ALLAN POE
“It was just after this adventure that we encountered a continent of immense extent and of prodigious solidity, but which, nevertheless, was supported entirely upon the back of a sky-blue cow that had no fewer than four-hundred horns.”
“That, now, I believe,” said the king, “because I have read something of the kind before in a book.” ____________________________
Even if you don’t believe a word of the Bible, you’ve got to respect the person who typed all that.
Lotus Weinstock ____________________________
No sooner do you begin to plough your way through the Old Testament books of Leviticus and Numbers, with their interminable lists of how to gild and feed the temple priests, how to deal with rashes, hair loss, infections, moles, warts, dandruff, athlete’s foot, psychic friends… than you come to excruciatingly detailed explanations of how to sacrifice turtle doves, rams, he-goats, sheep, and all bleating things that go on all fours, and what to do with their entrails, outrails, fat, slime, feathers, fur, and goo…
Stan Cox, “Confessions of a Bible Hater,” The Door, #146, March/April 1996 ____________________________
2 comments:
Here's a little infidel action.
A recent interesting debate at debunking christianity about the fact that there are very different (often violently different) interpretations of the same scripture. Loftus poses the following question:
Either God was not clear in his revelation about these issues, or the Holy Spirit isn't doing his job in illuminating the truth of the Bible, or God doesn't care what Christians believe.
While I play devil's advocate over there (I think this strategy of argument is just lame), I was wondering how a reflective Christian would respond to it.
My response was:
Pointing out disagreements to undermine a theory is a Creatinist tactic I hope skeptics don't stoop to. Dawkins vs Gould. Churchland vs Fodor. String theory versus whatever.
I understand the rhetorical point, but this argument strategy is weak. People struggling to understand texts that they think God had some role in creating is not evidence that God doesn't exist. Those that struggle are chosen, as they are showing how seriously that take God's word. It doesn't matter which particular number of angels on the pin they end up believing in. They at least work to see the meaning of his words.
There are enough questions, both philosophical and theological to fill heaven and earth with a million Christianities and other religions as well.
The fact that people who agree the Bible is "inspired and/or an inerrant/infallible" source for all sorts of "teachings" but can't agree what those teachings should be, should at least make one pause.
Have any of the “religions of the book” noted how quietly the Deity endures the writing of innumerable books all claiming to speak for Him/Her/Them/It? Surely any Deity that thought their exact words were vitally important would have “zapped” every scribe, printing press, or website, that dared to put false ones into the Deity’s mouth. But such “zapping” only appears to have taken place on extremely rare occasions, while new words of the Deity (as well as controversial translations and interpretations of older words) continue to flood the world in a veritable deluge of “God said this, God teaches that-ness.” Could it be that the Deity’s exact words do not matter as much to the Deity as they do to those who believe in “religions of the book?”
E.T.B.
____________________________
It is not easy to account for an infinite God making people so low in the scale of intellect as to require a revelation. Neither is it easy to perceive why, if a revelation was necessary for all, it was made only to a few.
Robert Ingersoll, Some Mistakes of Moses
____________________________
All that God wants us to do is clearly revealed in the Bible...and the Talmud and the Koran and the Book of Mormon and the works of L. Ron Hubbard. These holy writings tell us what God want us to do, often in the form of revealing anecdotes...The problem is that many of us don’t have the vaguest idea what these anecdotes reveal.
Dave Barry, “At the Risk of Being Smitten”
____________________________
Holy Scripture: A book sent down from heaven. Holy Scripture contains all that a Christian should know and believe provided he adds to it a million or so commentaries.
Voltaire, Dictionary of Theology
____________________________
By the time the Christian churches finalized their New [and Improved] Testament it was 300 years after Jesus had died and they were editing it right up to the last minute--including three known different endings to the last chapter of Mark, and a few letters that appeared so late that the apostles who allegedly wrote them were already dead. For additional “last minute” changes see, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament and Misquoting Jesus, both by Bart D. Ehrman
E.T.B.
____________________________
The dogma of the infallibility of the Bible is no more self-evident that is that of the infallibility of the Pope.
Thomas Henry Huxley, Essays Upon Some Controverted Questions
____________________________
EXCERPT FROM A TALE BY EDGAR ALLAN POE
“It was just after this adventure that we encountered a continent of immense extent and of prodigious solidity, but which, nevertheless, was supported entirely upon the back of a sky-blue cow that had no fewer than four-hundred horns.”
“That, now, I believe,” said the king, “because I have read something of the kind before in a book.”
____________________________
Even if you don’t believe a word of the Bible, you’ve got to respect the person who typed all that.
Lotus Weinstock
____________________________
No sooner do you begin to plough your way through the Old Testament books of Leviticus and Numbers, with their interminable lists of how to gild and feed the temple priests, how to deal with rashes, hair loss, infections, moles, warts, dandruff, athlete’s foot, psychic friends… than you come to excruciatingly detailed explanations of how to sacrifice turtle doves, rams, he-goats, sheep, and all bleating things that go on all fours, and what to do with their entrails, outrails, fat, slime, feathers, fur, and goo…
Stan Cox, “Confessions of a Bible Hater,” The Door, #146, March/April 1996
____________________________
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