I remember a few years back there was going to be a debate at the Oregon State Socratic Club about the legitimacy of transgendering. The transgender community objected to the debate not because their pro-trans perspective was being challenged, but because the defender of the transgender community was cisgender (sound of fingernails on blackboard) and therefore could not represent the lived experience of the trans community.
This seems a faulty epistemology--that only people who experience something can know about it.
15 comments:
Do people who have never served in the military lack an understanding of what it means to be in battle? Do people who have never played professional sports lack an understanding of professional locker room culture? Does Mary gain understanding when she sees the color red for the first time?
It's clear to me that all of these questions are "yes". Before we discuss whether cisgender people might fail to understand the lived experience of trans people, I'd like to discuss one of the above topics with anyone who answers no to one of the above questions.
On the other hand, if you answer "yes" to the three questions above, why would you not for a lived trans experience? For that matter, a lived black, or female, or disabled, etc.?
the legitimacy of transgendering
What does this mean exactly?
Do people who have never served in the military lack an understanding of what it means to be in battle? Do people who have never played professional sports lack an understanding of professional locker room culture?
People who have never been in the military or a sports team can indeed know a great deal about these things, through research, the testimonies of others, extrapolation based on their own experiences that can inform them, etc.
I don't know what "the legitimacy of transgendering" means so I can't apply your questions to that topic, but I could say that there are plenty of related subjects upon which anyone could have valid, informed positions without being transgender themselves.
Kevin,
I agree you can learn things as an outsider. I don't think your first paragraph actually answered the question. The ability to learn about something does not imply the existence of a gap, or lack thereof, in certain types of understanding that comes with experiencing a phenomenon.
Glory to God. At least some leftists have integrity
Looks like Naomi Wolf may be the only one though.
Miller,
I've been following the few people on the Left who bought into all the media hoaxes/disinformation regarding Trump. The decent on the Left will understand the Trump voter and disavow the dishonest media.
There is no level of experience that will completely qualify you to have an opinion on any topic. Because I was a radar guy in the Air Force does not mean I understand the experience of my family members who fought in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, War on Terror. The one dead, the three wounded, the two who went nuts have their own experience. I try to understand their experience through the memoirs of others who fought in those wars
In getting my chemistry degree, at least 95% of what I learned was from the experience and knowledge of others. Maybe 3% of what I know was from experiments in the lab and the 100% experience of working as a chemist.
Nevertheless, as a citizen I am free to give my opinion about military budgets, science and government, transgender psychosis.
Dave,
The decent on the Left will understand the Trump voter and disavow the dishonest media.
Looks like that type (if they exist) avoid this place.
At present Trump is hurting the conservative cause and helping Democrats. Without him, Democratws would not have won the top four statewide races in Arizona. He's busier attacking DeSantis than he is attacking Biden. He was always a hired gun, not a tru believer, in conservative causes, but conservatives liked him because he enabled them to win in 2016. But a new President at a time of economic difficulty should be an easy target and should result in both houses of Congress going to the Republicans. But no, Trump made sure subservient candidates who couldn't hold the middle in election after election ran for office--and lost. The slogan for the Trump 2024 campaign should be Make Biden Great For Once, because that it what he's doing. If he gets locked up, it will help Republicans in 2024.
>The decent on the Left will understand the Trump voter and disavow the dishonest media.
I do disavow the dishonest media. Tucker, Hannity, Rupert, etc all privately despise Trump and thought his four years were a disaster and that his claims of widespread voter fraud were obvious BS, but continue to give their viewers the fear and hate they want anyway, despite knowing it's all false. So I disavow them. Ah, it's good to be one of the decent lefties!
I don't disagree with your comment Victor. I hope Trump fades, but if not, better him than the Biden crime family. If the lying press had not made up so many obvious false stories he would be gone. I'm fine with seeing the lying Left go nuts again.
The trouble is Trump got Biden elected President. He was selected by the Democrats because of the matchup. Biden would never have run if not for Trump.
Like I said.
Not a single leftie on this site has the integrity or self awareness that Naomi Wolf shows.
I don’t like President Trump (Do I not? Who knows? I have been lied to about him so much for so long, I can‘t tell whether my instinctive aversion is simply the habituated residue of years of being on the receiving end of lies).
David Duffy,
The decent on the Left will understand the Trump voter and disavow the dishonest media.
There are Trump voters, and they are all individuals. When we have a media source more honest than the AP or NPR, let me know.
I try to understand their experience through the memoirs of others who fought in those wars
Certainly. If someone wanted to represent the needs of combat veterans on a stage, would you agree an actual combat veteran might be a better choice?
Nevertheless, as a citizen I am free to give my opinion about military budgets, science and government, transgender psychosis.
Do you feel you are qualified to speak on any of those subjects as an authority? Because the original objection was to have a non-trans person speaking about trans people as an authority on them.
bmiller,
Not a single leftie on this site has the integrity or self awareness that Naomi Wolf shows.
I disliked Blowhard Donald back when he was a Democrat.
One Brow,
I used to listen to NPR every morning on my drive to the office. Every NPR story reinforces their political narrative, which apart from a plane crash (unless they can blame Trump or a phony white supremacist or can make one the grievance groups look good), is mostly, maybe entirely, dishonest. AP is sometimes fine, Peter Doocy pokes around for answers. Every time I see a narrative on the Right I check it on the Left to see their narrative. Sometimes it’s confirmed by places like the New York Times, who admit that adolescent girls are having their breast chopped off. Sometimes, like voter fraud, I find the Left’s narrative, more persuasive. I find Investigative reporters like Matt Taibbi, Michael Shellenberger, Bari Weiss, interesting. I talk to clients , friends, it’s a mixed bag with me.
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