One important distinction people need to make about determinism is about whether there is a plan or not.
a) If there is no plan, then the world might still be determined by blind causality. That's just how things are. Maybe nothing ever happens without a cause.
b) If there is a plan determining how things happen, that plan must exist in its own right apart from the world it determines. Then also, the plan might have been created by a creator such as God, or perhaps the plan itself is somehow a brute fact.
I don't understand the difference between your "a" and the second part of "b".
In "a" you say there is no plan and things just always happen with a cause, just because. In "b" you say there is a plan but it's just a brute fact. Both of these cases look like an appeal to brute fact to me.
The "determine" in determinism implies volition, causation, even purpose, and possibly a larger plan. Seems to require an actor. The foreknowledge approach in the theology section implies an Arminian perspective.
You make a good point, bmiller, because we might want to consider causality (the basic laws of physics) as a kind of plan. On the other hand, there might also be some other kind of plan that is more explicit and detailed, like a computer program, that determines outcomes beyond what the laws of physics could naturally do.
And I'm suggesting this kind of computer program running our world might be created by a person, like God, or it might actually just exist without having been created.
Consider the contrast between "top down" versus "bottom up." In a top down system, the outcome is known ahead of time, whereas in a bottom up system, no particlar outcome is planned, but there are just a few simple rules that determine things step by step.
Biological evolution is a kind of bottom up system. A typical computer program is a top down system.
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In reply to "oozzielionel": The point of my comment was that we should specify what we mean instead of merely implying or assuming. The word "determine" by itself is easily misunderstood. Different people mean different things when they use that word.
No one here thinks computers have free will while playing chess, yet the moves they make are unpredictable, and they will make different moves in response to the same position at times.
6 comments:
One important distinction people need to make about determinism is about whether there is a plan or not.
a) If there is no plan, then the world might still be determined by blind causality. That's just how things are. Maybe nothing ever happens without a cause.
b) If there is a plan determining how things happen, that plan must exist in its own right apart from the world it determines. Then also, the plan might have been created by a creator such as God, or perhaps the plan itself is somehow a brute fact.
John,
I don't understand the difference between your "a" and the second part of "b".
In "a" you say there is no plan and things just always happen with a cause, just because. In "b" you say there is a plan but it's just a brute fact. Both of these cases look like an appeal to brute fact to me.
The "determine" in determinism implies volition, causation, even purpose, and possibly a larger plan. Seems to require an actor. The foreknowledge approach in the theology section implies an Arminian perspective.
You make a good point, bmiller, because we might want to consider causality (the basic laws of physics) as a kind of plan. On the other hand, there might also be some other kind of plan that is more explicit and detailed, like a computer program, that determines outcomes beyond what the laws of physics could naturally do.
And I'm suggesting this kind of computer program running our world might be created by a person, like God, or it might actually just exist without having been created.
Consider the contrast between "top down" versus "bottom up." In a top down system, the outcome is known ahead of time, whereas in a bottom up system, no particlar outcome is planned, but there are just a few simple rules that determine things step by step.
Biological evolution is a kind of bottom up system. A typical computer program is a top down system.
----
In reply to "oozzielionel": The point of my comment was that we should specify what we mean instead of merely implying or assuming. The word "determine" by itself is easily misunderstood. Different people mean different things when they use that word.
John,
Thanks for the clarification. I get your meaning now.
No one here thinks computers have free will while playing chess, yet the moves they make are unpredictable, and they will make different moves in response to the same position at times.
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