This is a blog to discuss philosophy, chess, politics,
C. S. Lewis, or whatever it is that I'm in the mood to discuss.
Sunday, January 13, 2019
Has there been an increase in illegal immigration? Is this the crisis our government is shutting down over?
The report from the NY Times is here. Oh yeah, it comes from the NYT, so it just HAS to be leftist propaganda. So these statistics and facts were made up?
So in the first claim, Trump's claim is that we can't have people illegally crossing the border like we have over the last ten years. NYT responds that the number of illegal aliens has been dropping over the years, much lower than previous decades.
The response doesn't address Trump's claim. According to that graph, roughly two or three million people were arrested for illegally crossing the border during those ten years Trump mentions. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, made it through undetected in that same period, according to the NYT article.
I agree with Trump on that one. No sovereign nation should tolerate such a thing. Whether it is a "crisis" is a subjective statement. Whether the wall is a good answer is debatable. But to try and dismiss his claim is essentially to dismiss millions of illegal immigrants as a problem. It's a problem, all right.
With the second claim, assuming the facts are correct, NYT is justified in calling out Trump for not pointing out the wall would make only a small dent in the total amount of heroin crossing the border. However, the chart in the article shows percentages, not actual amounts. Ten percent of total heroin between ports of entry is probably a huge amount of physical heroin, and that's a problem.
Given the vast majority of drugs presumably use legal ports of entry, then the wall would not be the most cost-effective means of combating the problem. However, the drug smuggling WOULD increase between ports of entry if we managed to start catching substantially more of them at those ports, so having something in place ready to help stem that tide would be nice. Whether the wall is the best answer is debatable, whether it's a crisis is subjective. But heroin across the border could easily become a far bigger problem.
For the third claim, NYT counters Trump's claim of thousands dead and otherwise victimized by illegal alien criminals by going into incarceration statistics. That's not even remotely useful, since Trump's claim is still true - Americans, the people he is sworn to protect as President, have been and are being hurt by people who are not supposed to be here. That's a problem, regardless of whether illegals as a group are more or less prone to violent criminal behavior than natives or legal immigrants. They aren't supposed to be here, so those victims should have never been victims.
NYT ends by saying there's no way of telling whether it is happening at crisis levels. Obviously that's true, since what one person sees as a crisis doesn't even register on someone else's radar, especially among various political perspectives. But by the same token, they can't very well try to claim it's NOT a crisis if there is no objective measure of what actually constitutes "crisis levels".
But by the same token, they can't very well try to claim it's NOT a crisis if there is no objective measure of what actually constitutes "crisis levels".
LL they cannot argue it might be a crisis therefore we will assume it is one, O man its a crisis.
I agree with Trump on that one. No sovereign nation should tolerate such a thing. Whether it is a "crisis" is a subjective statement. Whether the wall is a good answer is debatable. But to try and dismiss his claim is essentially to dismiss millions of illegal immigrants as a problem. It's a problem, all right.
I disagree. It's just par for the course for having such a huge boarder. Most countries aren;t as big as us, or have the things to offer that we do. Some portion of the problem faced imn their own countries are our fault directly or indirectly. They add a lot to us and they do not commit significant percentage of serious crime.
As an adherent of Liberation Theology, I welcome my brothers and sisters from Central America to the USA. Their presence amongst us will only bring us closer to the Kingdom of Heaven here on Earth.
And isn't that what we all hope for? "Thy Kingdom come."
What Happened When a Trump Supporter Challenged Me About the Wall "“President Trump’s wall would be a mammoth expenditure that would have little impact on illegal immigration.” It would also create many “direct harms,” including “the spending, the taxes, the eminent domain abuse, and the decrease in immigrant’s freedoms of movement. [...] 8. Where barriers were built, there was little impact on the number of border crossers. According to the Congressional Research Center cited in the Cato report, after San Diego rebuilt a fence making it more wall-like—taller and more opaque—the structure “did not have a discernible impact on the influx of unauthorized aliens coming across the border” in the area. They simply came in elsewhere, primarily where natural barriers such as water or mountainous regions preclude a wall. [...] The ugly genius of Trump is his ability to manipulate deep, primal emotions—namely fear and hate. Along with Fox News, he has convinced his base that immigrants put them in “extreme danger” and only a wall will make them “safe.”
Unfortunately, their need to feel safe is much stronger than their will to grapple with a complex, multifaceted problem—a problem that will require serious engagement with complex policies to get at the root of it."
I've seen many walls in my time. I patrolled the East-West German border with the Bayerische Grenzpolizei back in the 1970s, a hideous scar across the beautiful Bavarian landscape of watch towers, landmines,and barbed wire fences. I've been to Panmunjom, dividing North and South Korea at the badly misnamed DMZ (nothing "demilitarized" about it). The worst I've seen was in Cyprus, where a vision of hell itself divides that island in two, running straight through the capital city of Lefkosia (Nicosia), often right through buildings. To this very day, I've never beheld anything uglier in my entire life.
Although I grew up in Arizona, I moved away before any border wall was ever dreamed of. I had twice travelled to Mexico in the late 1960s (crossing at the town of Lukeville), when there was nothing at the border other than a simple checkpoint, where one was basically waved through.
Walls are an abomination, and I want no part in them. I do not wish to support them with my tax dollars, just as any Pro Life citizen wants none of his his tax money going to support abortion. Evil is evil.
13 comments:
I can't read the article without a subscription. Does Trump say that it has substantially increased in recent years, or something to that effect?
Never mind, I got in on a different device.
So in the first claim, Trump's claim is that we can't have people illegally crossing the border like we have over the last ten years. NYT responds that the number of illegal aliens has been dropping over the years, much lower than previous decades.
The response doesn't address Trump's claim. According to that graph, roughly two or three million people were arrested for illegally crossing the border during those ten years Trump mentions. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, made it through undetected in that same period, according to the NYT article.
I agree with Trump on that one. No sovereign nation should tolerate such a thing. Whether it is a "crisis" is a subjective statement. Whether the wall is a good answer is debatable. But to try and dismiss his claim is essentially to dismiss millions of illegal immigrants as a problem. It's a problem, all right.
With the second claim, assuming the facts are correct, NYT is justified in calling out Trump for not pointing out the wall would make only a small dent in the total amount of heroin crossing the border. However, the chart in the article shows percentages, not actual amounts. Ten percent of total heroin between ports of entry is probably a huge amount of physical heroin, and that's a problem.
Given the vast majority of drugs presumably use legal ports of entry, then the wall would not be the most cost-effective means of combating the problem. However, the drug smuggling WOULD increase between ports of entry if we managed to start catching substantially more of them at those ports, so having something in place ready to help stem that tide would be nice. Whether the wall is the best answer is debatable, whether it's a crisis is subjective. But heroin across the border could easily become a far bigger problem.
For the third claim, NYT counters Trump's claim of thousands dead and otherwise victimized by illegal alien criminals by going into incarceration statistics. That's not even remotely useful, since Trump's claim is still true - Americans, the people he is sworn to protect as President, have been and are being hurt by people who are not supposed to be here. That's a problem, regardless of whether illegals as a group are more or less prone to violent criminal behavior than natives or legal immigrants. They aren't supposed to be here, so those victims should have never been victims.
NYT ends by saying there's no way of telling whether it is happening at crisis levels. Obviously that's true, since what one person sees as a crisis doesn't even register on someone else's radar, especially among various political perspectives. But by the same token, they can't very well try to claim it's NOT a crisis if there is no objective measure of what actually constitutes "crisis levels".
Overall, I call the piece useless.
But by the same token, they can't very well try to claim it's NOT a crisis if there is no objective measure of what actually constitutes "crisis levels".
LL they cannot argue it might be a crisis therefore we will assume it is one, O man its a crisis.
My critique of Jeff Lowder's arguments in debate with rank Turek
Rank Turek, sorry man, not a intentional dig. at Frank Turek.
Trump's position is manifest crap. here is a thing I did on it a research piece back in the campaign of 15,
https://needmoreshovels.blogspot.com/2016/02/what-percentage-of-dangerous-illegals.html
I agree with Trump on that one. No sovereign nation should tolerate such a thing. Whether it is a "crisis" is a subjective statement. Whether the wall is a good answer is debatable. But to try and dismiss his claim is essentially to dismiss millions of illegal immigrants as a problem. It's a problem, all right.
I disagree. It's just par for the course for having such a huge boarder. Most countries aren;t as big as us, or have the things to offer that we do. Some portion of the problem faced imn their own countries are our fault directly or indirectly. They add a lot to us and they do not commit significant percentage of serious crime.
As an adherent of Liberation Theology, I welcome my brothers and sisters from Central America to the USA. Their presence amongst us will only bring us closer to the Kingdom of Heaven here on Earth.
And isn't that what we all hope for? "Thy Kingdom come."
Marx did not believe in the Parousia did he?
b, what do you think is the workers paradise?
Joe,
Ha ha! Taken up and thrown into a gulag?
What Happened When a Trump Supporter Challenged Me About the Wall
"“President Trump’s wall would be a mammoth expenditure that would have little impact on illegal immigration.” It would also create many “direct harms,” including “the spending, the taxes, the eminent domain abuse, and the decrease in immigrant’s freedoms of movement.
[...]
8. Where barriers were built, there was little impact on the number of border crossers. According to the Congressional Research Center cited in the Cato report, after San Diego rebuilt a fence making it more wall-like—taller and more opaque—the structure “did not have a discernible impact on the influx of unauthorized aliens coming across the border” in the area. They simply came in elsewhere, primarily where natural barriers such as water or mountainous regions preclude a wall.
[...]
The ugly genius of Trump is his ability to manipulate deep, primal emotions—namely fear and hate. Along with Fox News, he has convinced his base that immigrants put them in “extreme danger” and only a wall will make them “safe.”
Unfortunately, their need to feel safe is much stronger than their will to grapple with a complex, multifaceted problem—a problem that will require serious engagement with complex policies to get at the root of it."
I've seen many walls in my time. I patrolled the East-West German border with the Bayerische Grenzpolizei back in the 1970s, a hideous scar across the beautiful Bavarian landscape of watch towers, landmines,and barbed wire fences. I've been to Panmunjom, dividing North and South Korea at the badly misnamed DMZ (nothing "demilitarized" about it). The worst I've seen was in Cyprus, where a vision of hell itself divides that island in two, running straight through the capital city of Lefkosia (Nicosia), often right through buildings. To this very day, I've never beheld anything uglier in my entire life.
Although I grew up in Arizona, I moved away before any border wall was ever dreamed of. I had twice travelled to Mexico in the late 1960s (crossing at the town of Lukeville), when there was nothing at the border other than a simple checkpoint, where one was basically waved through.
Walls are an abomination, and I want no part in them. I do not wish to support them with my tax dollars, just as any Pro Life citizen wants none of his his tax money going to support abortion. Evil is evil.
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