Sunday, July 01, 2018

C. S. Lewis and a certain American politician


On the other hand, there's this guy.

33 comments:

Dave Duffy said...

Victor,

From Mere Christianity: "There is one vice of which no man in the world is free; which everyone loathes when he sees it in someone else"

Trump is a prideful amoral secularist--exaggerated. Which is why the prideful amoral secular heathens hate him so much. The difference is, he doesn't despise the uneducated white deplorables or blue-collar Evangelicals, a couple of groups you are free to despise if you are a secularist.

Note to the Crazies, this isn't racist, just an observation.

bmiller said...

Dave,

You left out "loudmouth New Yorker". Ick.

Starhopper said...

Well, if the right truly loves this guy so much, then I never, ever, want to hear them say a bad word about "elites" ever again. Not once.

Dave Duffy said...

We don't love him Bob. He's the President. Love of the dear leader is for the Left.

I will say what I want about whatever you call the "elites." The "never, ever" is childish.

"Ick"

Yep, in business, you have to deal with loudmouth braggarts all the time. The best I can do is try to help their business succeed and invite them to my church.

bmiller said...

Think I'm going to ask Mein Fuher on twitter what the best way to cook steaks on the grill this 4th.

~1:43 of the video. :-)

Joe Hinman said...

Discussion of Euthyphro Dilemma

Metacrock's blog

Hugo Pelland said...

Dave said:

"he doesn't despise the uneducated white deplorables or blue-collar Evangelicals"

That's hilarious! Trump might not flat out despise them, but he clearly only cares for their vote and praise, not to make their lives better.

Jim S. said...

Don't like Trump, didn't vote for Trump. Do you really think his egotism and self-righteousness is greater than Obama's?

Starhopper said...

"Do you really think his egotism and self-righteousness is greater than Obama's?"

Yes. Far greater. No contest. It's like comparing a match flame to the sun.

Jim S. said...

Trump didn't give foreign dignitaries a collection of his greatest speeches.

oozzielionel said...

We want our presidents to be confident yet humble, compassionate yet brutal. We want them to have excellence of character yet be willing to do the nasty things that keep us safe. We want them to be free from greed yet financially competent. We want our president to care for the poor but be able to converse with those in power. We want our president to be a strong negotiator but not me a manipulator.

Starhopper said...

"Trump didn't give foreign dignitaries a collection of his greatest speeches."

Maybe that's because he doesn't have any. What could he give them? Perhaps "I alone can fix it?" Or "There were many fine people marching with those neo-nazis." Or how about "Such a nasty woman!" Oooh! I know!! "The free press is the enemy of the people!"

Jim S. said...

Speaking as someone who hates Republicans AND Democrats, the egotism of Obama and the near worship of his acolytes was an order of magnitude worse than Trump's. The difference is that Trump is a blustering loudmouth so it calls attention to the egotism more. I'm blown away by Obama boosters who complain about Trump's obnoxious self-preening and the closed-mindedness of his supporters. It's one of the worst cases I've seen of accusing one's enemies of what one is guilty of.

Victor Reppert said...

I think there is a malignant narcissism there in Trump that is going to spill over into public policy and poison whatever causes he supports, however worthy they might be. Examples: he gets a big photo op with Kim Jong Un, but in the process says nothing about the human rights violations, doesn't involve China, and gets and agreement our government is now saying Kim is already defaulting on. Second, he decides that trade wars are easy to win, and so starts them with China, Canada, and other countries. The countries retaliate, and, surprise surprise, Harley Davidson moves their motorcycle factories out of the country because they can't afford to keep them here. Trust me, if China really wants to harm our economy they can do it, but Trump thinks he can made them mad and get away with it. Apparently his plan to make America great again is to make our allies, and those whom we should be building relationships with, mad at us. He is supposed to be a great deal-maker because he wrote a book on the art of the deal (actually it was ghostwritten) and because he played a successful businessman on TV. But he bankrupted his companies, what, four times, and now his policies are exploding the national debt. He practices nepotism to a degree America has never seen at least in my lifetime, he puts people in trusted positions who can be blackmailed, (including a two-time wife-beater) and the chances are very likely that he is being blackmailed by various foreign countries even now.

Obama wanted people working with him who would challenge him, and not make things to easy. He put his chief primary rival in as secretary of state. A President needs strong, independent voices around him to correct his misconceptions. Trump demands personal loyalty from those who work under him (such as the head of the FBI), and that mentality will not produce a good result.

Hugo Pelland said...

Victor, great examples, and there are so many more. Yet, Jim and many others think Trump is just one more politician as usual. It's as if they have never read his Twitter feed...

bmiller said...

Should those within the government take him down then?

Joe Hinman said...

That is a great post Victor. I really agree, Trump once uttered "I am the most important person in the world" then caught himself and changed tune, he really thinks of himself that way.I am convinced that the Republicans in congress around Ryan have come to believe that they are above the rank of mortal and they have the right to cull the heard, They don't care if they kill people.


btw On Metacrock's blog I'm talking about Heidegger.



Heidegger is important to my theology because he is part of the philosophical background of Tillich's view point, Heidegger was an atheist himself but his position with respect to phenomenology gives him a certain theological status,

Dave Duffy said...

Victor,

Not a bad recitation of the current narrative. I keep losing track of what I'm supposed to be worked up about since Reagan was elected. So thanks for the update.

On one point: You are right, we can trust you, China can damage our economy. The United States can destroy theirs. A trade "war" is not easy to win, correct. Just as our real war against Japan was not easy to win. We will pay more for products and have some scarcity of plastic goods at Walmart (which will mostly hurt the poor). However, China will slip into abject poverty and possibly revolution without US dollars. We hold the high cards. China needs to be held account for their thief of intellectual property. It will cost us, but it would be good for their corruption and theft to end (if only the media would make them into the RUSSIANS!!! the Left would get emotionally involved). This is not the method I would choose since I'm basically a free-trader, but I'm willing as citizen to give it try.

The rest of what you say has another rational side to your hysteria.

I do prefer President Obama's even, if cold, temperament. I prefer his demeanor over Trump's instability. But, I never much worried about either.

Your post reminds me of the hysteria on the Right about Clinton, Obama, Carter. Good Grief, get a grip.

Dave Duffy said...

"That's hilarious! Trump might not flat out despise them, but he clearly only cares for their vote and praise, not to make their lives better."

Hugo,

I'm keeping an eye on the data of what blue-color people consider a better life, at least in terms of the economy and other things the government can effect. Of course, the most important things like family, marriage, a relationship to The Almighty God are the most important things to a better life that blowhards like President Obama and President Trump have no influence over.

Hugo Pelland said...

Dave,
The problem is that blue-color people don't seem to realize that Trump won't help with these things that neither party would help with. It's elitist of me to say they are voting against their own interest when rich educated Liberals do the same, but the difference is that the average right-winger who voted for Trump was literally tricked into doing so. They played a gamble that was almost certainly going to fail.

Related to that, this Democrat did a good job at explaining our blind spots:
https://youtu.be/zFfWv0EnHQw

Dave Duffy said...

"They played a gamble that was almost certainly going to fail."

It may fail. I agree, Trump was a total roll of the dice gamble. Clinton/Obama was a known. We knew what were going to get for another four years with Hillary and Bill lurking around The White House. Americans (in swing States that decided the election) decided on the gamble. The dice are still rolling on the table. Personally, I'm glad we aren't stuck with another four years of what I should expect from Clinton/Obama.

Joe Hinman said...


Process Theology is the most popular God concept alternative that is an alternative to classical theism. I have always rejected process theology because I was under the impression that the God of process is impersonal. I should have realized that is a too easy dismissal. One day after class spoke Dr, Schubert Ogden (a major process theologian) he dismissed that criticism as "that's just jargon for the journals."

Metacrock's blog

Joe Hinman said...


Blogger Dave Duffy said...
"They played a gamble that was almost certainly going to fail."

It may fail. I agree, Trump was a total roll of the dice gamble. Clinton/Obama was a known. We knew what were going to get for another four years with Hillary and Bill lurking around The White House. Americans (in swing States that decided the election) decided on the gamble. The dice are still rolling on the table. Personally, I'm glad we aren't stuck with another four years of what I should expect from Clinton/Obama.

July 08, 2018 1:59 PM

yes it makes so much more sense that 13000 people a year should die so we don't have the same of Hillary being president,bad enough a black man but a woman! o no!!! those 13,000 sacramental victims are still worth it.

Hillary is so evil, without her there would be no abortion in
merica

Joe Hinman said...

here is a list of the lives Trump's policies are going to end or ruin so far. each of these is a link.I can't link them here but on this page:

http://resistance-not-futile.blogspot.com/2017/12/trump-balance-sheet-what-trump-costs-us.html

the links are working so you can see the documentation.Weigh these agaisnt the fat that you still can't show me a single policy of Hillary's that would produce anything like the death Trump has produced already. These are future deaths but they are on the way due to the policy choices he's made,this is only a conservative estimate.


factually quantifiable harms already accrued as result of Trump's attack on civilization

*13 million lose health care due to Tax scam


* 13 thousand /year die from air pollution due to roll back of regs on coal fired plants
(Trump's war on breathing: Resistance is not Futile)


*50,000 lives / year lost due to roll back auto emission stadards
(Ibid, see also "Trump has started the roll back" the Guardian)

* Roll backs on regs that protect drinking water for 117 million
("Trump wrecks nation's clean water," Resistance...)


*cut food and formula for nearly 390,000 participating women, children and infants.()
Proposed slashing the WIC program. President Trump’s proposal to slash funding for the WIC program puts basic food security at risk for thousands of families. At an annual food cost of about $513 per person, the $200 million cut could help pay for a year’s worth of food and formula for nearly 390,000 participating women, children and infants. (100 ways 100 days; center for American Progress)


* 600 lives and prevent more than 900 new cases of silicosis each year.
After more than four decades of development, this rule would protect construction and manufacturing workers from inhaling silica, which can lead to lung cancer, silicosis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and kidney disease. It was projected to save more than 600 lives and prevent more than 900 new cases of silicosis each year.
(Ibid)

*Tried to cut his own taxes by millions of dollars while taking health insurance from tens of millions of Americans. Based on President Trump’s leaked 2005 Tax Return Form 1040, repealing the ACA could give Trump a personal tax cut of more than $2 million. At the same time, the House legislation to repeal the ACA would have taken health insurance from 24 million Americans.


Joe Hinman said...

* ended Amnesty for 800,000 immigrants ("dreamers") who have been in country since childhood will lead to mass deportations (NBC News)


* sets precedent for destruction of civil rights
After barely eight months in office, President Trump has secured his legacy: If left unchecked, he will undermine civil rights progress in this country more than any president in modern history.
This week has shown previews of this dangerous agenda. And not for the reasons you’re thinking.
While Trump’s back and forth on whether he would condemn the white supremacist groups behind the deadly tragedy in Charlottesville lent the weight of the United States presidency to a racist worldview, we must also focus on the series of actions that prove those remarks are already being translated into an equally oppressive policy agenda.Since beginning his campaign, Trump has fanned the flames of racism, bigotry, and xenophobia – from calling Mexicans rapists, making a border wall one of his central campaign promises, implementing a Muslim travel ban, and using dog-whistle politics to talk in veiled terms about black communities. (The Hill)
* Potential loss of all life on Earthy due to global warming since Trup callsit ahoax and took us outof Paris accords, (see my research on Metacorck's blog)

see the full list of the Center for American progress, 100 ways in 100 days Trump has hurt America,

* Trump DOJ (Sessions) return ti debeter's prisions,Itps illegal to be poor! (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/opinion/sessions-says-to-courts-go-ahead-jail-people-because-theyre-poor.html?mtrref=l.facebook.com&assetType=opinion




There are debter's prisons. Deters prsions! that;s eighth century! Trump DOJ supports it1 It's acrime to be poor)
Last week, Attorney General Jeff Sessions retracted an Obama-era guidanceto state courts that was meant to end debtors’ prisons, where people who are too poor to pay fines are sent. This practice is blatantly unconstitutional, and the guidance had helped jump-start reform around the country. Its withdrawal is the latest sign that the federal government is retreating from protecting civil rights for the most vulnerable among us....Ferguson [Mo.] used its criminal justice system as a for-profit enterprise, extracting millions from its poorest citizens. Internal emails revealed the head of finance directing policing strategy to maximize revenue rather than ensure public safety. Officers told us they were pressured to issue as many tickets as possible.Even the local judge was in on it, imposing penalties of $302 for jaywalking and $531 for allowing weeds to grow in one’s yard. He issued arrest warrants for residents who fell behind on payments — including a 67-year-old woman who had been fined for a trash-removal violation — without inquiring whether they even had the ability to pay the exorbitant amounts. The arrests resulted in new charges, more fees and the suspension of driver’s licenses. These burdens fell disproportionately on African-Americans.
*12-15000 yr die from asbestos and Trump's EPA will can restrictions
Sokolove law
https://www.sokolovelaw.com/blog/donald-trump-asbestos/


,

Hugo Pelland said...

Dave said: "It may fail. I agree,..."
May fail?
Trump has failed already on so many levels, as Joe mentioned but on many others too, and we're not even 2 years in his presidency. I was really trying to see the good things he could do. I remember thinking it won't be that bad because he insists on making the middle class better and "draining the swamp".
That was all before January 2017...

Legion of Logic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Legion of Logic said...

Joe: "yes it makes so much more sense that 13000 people a year should die so we don't have the same of Hillary being president,bad enough a black man but a woman! o no!!! those 13,000 sacramental victims are still worth it."

To make sure I understand your position. You are saying that if conservatives had a choice between, say, Nikki Haley and Al Gore, that we would vote Gore, sacrificing all of our values, so long as a white man is in office? That we would vote for John Kerry over Ben Carson or Allen West? We'd prefer Chuck Schumer over Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio? Just so there's a white man in office?

Voting data from the Roper Center (near as I can tell, a nonpartisan group) shows that men, women, whites, and blacks have all voted Democrat and Republican at similar rates and within similar margins for many elections (Obama's first election being an outlier). Hillary got as big a percentage of the male vote as Gore and Kerry (11 percent gap), and did far better than Carter, Mondale, and Dukakis, only being outperformed by her husband and Obama. Obama got as much of the white vote as Hillary did in 2012, and in 2008 got more than she, Gore, and Kerry did.

Basically, the numbers do not add up - not even close - that sexism or racism had any notable impact on the votes Obama or Hillary received. Hillary did not lose because of sexism. Their results fall neatly into the trend we've had the past twenty years, with (R) and (D) being the biggest predictors as to who will receive what vote.

I continually see you leaping upon racism or sexism as the first explanation as to why we opposed Obama and Hillary (rather than the much more obvious, likely, and charitable explanation of policy differences), and I'm really curious why. The data I've seen does not support your accusations.

bmiller said...

8 of 12 Thai kids now rescued from the cave.
Thank God.

bmiller said...

All 12 and the coach now.
miraculous!

Legion of Logic said...

Yeah that's not the outcome we are conditioned to expect from situations like that these days. Very glad to hear it.

Dave Duffy said...

13,000 people have died!!!!!!!!!!! The country is a total failure!!!!!! because of Trump!!!!!!!!!

Where do I sign up?

One Brow said...

Legion of Logic said...
To make sure I understand your position. You are saying that if conservatives had a choice between, say, Nikki Haley and Al Gore, that we would vote Gore, sacrificing all of our values, so long as a white man is in office? That we would vote for John Kerry over Ben Carson or Allen West? We'd prefer Chuck Schumer over Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio? Just so there's a white man in office?

I would be surprised if conservatives ever left themselves that choice for President.