Tuesday, October 03, 2017

How to argue about religion

Here. 

HT: Bob Prokop

20 comments:

Stardusty Psyche said...

Barron misunderstands experience versus analytical knowledge.

The fact you feel there is a god means you know for certain you are experiencing the feeling of god. Your emotions about god do not demonstrate there really is an outside realized being corresponding to your feelings.

Joe Hinman said...

tardusty Psyche said...
Barron misunderstands experience versus analytical knowledge.

The fact you feel there is a god means you know for certain you are experiencing the feeling of god. Your emotions about god do not demonstrate there really is an outside realized being corresponding to your feelings.

that's not what he said Dusty,

Joe Hinman said...

It's a good talk for besiegers,he;s not putting that out as a major scholarship,It's a talk for beginnings. He is interesting enough to follow his face book page,

Hugo Pelland said...

I have heard of Barron for the first time a long time ago; trying to remember... I was in college I think, so 10-15 years ago.

To this day, I have yet to find people who are more eloquent, and inteligent sounding. He makes great points and uses critical thinking to support his Catholic faith. Being raised in that same religion, I may be biased, but it remains an ideology I respect greatly...

...even if I disagree with everything he says about rationality and faith.

Joe Hinman said...

can science really prove the basis of modern physics?

Joe Hinman said...

when I said besiegers,I meant to say people just starting to think about it, be-gaining.I agree with you Hugo I don't think his effectiveness is limited to the basics,I bet he's effective in advanced studies too.

Stardusty Psyche said...


Blogger Hugo Pelland said..
October 05, 2017 12:28 AM.

" Catholic faith. Being raised in that same religion, I may be biased, but it remains an ideology I respect greatly...
--This is worse than I had previously realized. No wonder you have such a difficult time understanding atheist arguments and tend to side with theistic nonsense such as omniscience not mandating determinism.

You have not fully shed the irrationality of the ideology you were indoctrinated into as a child.

So, what is so admirable about Catholic ideology? Original sin? Humans are to blame for acting as god created them to act? Eternal torture for doing exactly what god knew we would do before he created us, while he could have created us otherwise? The perverted demand by god for adulation from his little creations? The condemnation of homosexuality, sex, and even condoms? The cannibalistic primitive superstitious rituals and chants and mumblings and a cracker is flesh and wine is blood so bon appetite? The need to beg a magic man in the sky for forgiveness for doing all the human things he made you to do?

Joe Hinman said...

You have not fully shed the irrationality of the ideology you were indoctrinated into as a child.

unlike you who traded one for another,

So, what is so admirable about Catholic ideology? Original sin? Humans are to blame for acting as god created them to act?

BZzzzzZZZZzzzzz God did not create humans to do original sin


Eternal torture for doing exactly what god knew we would do before he created us, while he could have created us otherwise?

(1) BZZzzzZZZzzzzz egging the question prove he could have created us otherwise and still have lo e and a moral universe

(2) prove he;l is eternal conscious torment.

The perverted demand by god for adulation from his little creations?

BZZzzzZZZzzz nowhere does any passage state that adoration is condition of salvation


The condemnation of homosexuality, sex, and even condoms?


no passage says condoms are a sin


The cannibalistic primitive superstitious rituals and chants and mumblings and a cracker is flesh and wine is blood so bon appetite?

where do you see those/ I'll have to try that church sounds thrilling


The need to beg a magic man in the sky for forgiveness for doing all the human things he made you to do?


show me the passage.

I have 200 peer reviewed studies from academic journals that show religious experience is good for you and transforms your life,you have no study anywhere that says atheism does anything for you,

Hugo Pelland said...

SP,

My favorite part of Barron's talk is when he discusses the right way to implement cannibalistic primitive superstitious rituals and chants in our everyday life. Truly inspiring. I have myself started to follow such ritual, even if I don't get the supernatural bt, and saw instant changes in my life. I am not sold on the mumbling yet but that might require more practice.

By the way, it's spelled "bon appétit", but I understand that being accurate requires way too much effort from you, so we shouldn't expect anything else...

Stardusty Psyche said...

Joe Hinman said...

" no passage says condoms are a sin"
--Tell it to the pope, it was about Catholic ideology...

Reading skill, Joe. Try it before you launch off into your ridiculous little rants.

Joe Hinman said...

Stardusty Psyche said...
Joe Hinman said...

" no passage says condoms are a sin"
--Tell it to the pope, it was about Catholic ideology...

Reading skill, Joe. Try it before you launch off into your ridiculous little rants.

good point Dusty that's why I said passage and not "encyclical."

Stardusty Psyche said...

Joe Hinman said.. October 05, 2017 7:29 AM.

" I have 200 peer reviewed studies from academic journals that show religious experience is good for you "
--A consequential argument for a fairy tale does not make the fantasy true.

Most people simply feel better when they can convince themselves of pleasant lies.

Stardusty Psyche said...

consequentialist

bmiller said...

@Hugo,

My favorite part of Barron's talk is when he discusses the right way to implement cannibalistic primitive superstitious rituals and chants in our everyday life. Truly inspiring. I have myself started to follow such ritual, even if I don't get the supernatural bt, and saw instant changes in my life. I am not sold on the mumbling yet but that might require more practice.

Hey, don't sell the mumblings short. I mumble daily and my life has improved :-)

I like your sense of humor.

Hugo Pelland said...

Haha, thx

Joe Hinman said...

Stardusty Psyche said...
Joe Hinman said.. October 05, 2017 7:29 AM.

" I have 200 peer reviewed studies from academic journals that show religious experience is good for you "
--A consequential argument for a fairy tale does not make the fantasy true.

Most people simply feel better when they can convince themselves of pleasant lies.

October 06, 2017 7:4

like the lie that you care about scientific evidence then when you have an avalanche of scientific evidence that contradicts your self aggrandizing bull shit you reject it out of hand without knowing shit about it? that kind of pleasant lie?

Joe Hinman said...

Stardusty Psyche said...
consequentialist

I am not one, is that what you think you are?

Joe Hinman said...

the real problem with Barron's talk is it assumes atheists give a rat's ass about ideas or thinking, they don't even believe in thinking. they don't care about science either. they worship a from God hatred they call science when confronted with real scientific data they mock and ridicule it.

Stardusty Psyche said...

Joe Hinman said.. October 06, 2017 10:48 PM.

Stardusty Psyche said...
consequentialist

I am not one, is that what you think you are?
" I have 200 peer reviewed studies from academic journals that show religious experience is good for you "
--Arguing religion is good for you is a consequentialist argument. You are arguing that religion is true because it does something good. That is a bullshit argument. No wonder you didn't finish, you probably drove your mentor crazy with that sort of sophomoric stupidity.

Joe Hinman said...

I am not one, is that what you think you are?
" I have 200 peer reviewed studies from academic journals that show religious experience is good for you "

--Arguing religion is good for you is a consequentialist argument.

No its not, you don't even know what constitutionalism is, besides you are committing the genetic fallacy,I can name the source of your idea therefore I've beaten it,

In ethics consequential is teleological or outcome oriented ethics, it broader philosphical context it refers to utilitarianism or something of that nature,

It is grossly studied to think that saying x is good for you is the same as saying seek the greatest good for the greatest number,



You are arguing that religion is true because it does something good. That is a bullshit argument. No wonder you didn't finish, you probably drove your mentor crazy with that sort of sophomoric stupidity.

It is nether bull shit nor is it consequential; how do you know science is true?,answer? most of the time atheists will say "because it works," so you equate truth with working.

region claims to make life better and it does thus it is true to it's own goals,