Funny thing about prayer studies. When the early ones were Big (Byrd and Harris I think) atheists would argue that you can't control outside prayer. I invented a reason to trust the studies in spite of not being able to control. They didn't buy it. they aware just admit and insulting about it. Can't control outside prayer.
When studies began showing prayer has negative effect or no effect I had already accepted the notion that double blind studies of prayer results are impossible (they were right can't control outside prayer). I began to argue that and they said "O sure we can you don't know anything,"
We can't control for outside prayer, The idea that prayer can affect it even negatively is opposed to naturalistic view. It's really an issue of proof and boarders on epistemology. So the only real reliable evidence would be the kind of study they do at Lourdes. straight up one shot empirical.
I discussed this with a member of the Lourdes medical committee.
From the article by Deem: "Numerous other prayer studies have shown little of no effect of distant intercessory prayer. However neither Jesus, nor the New Testament disciples, rarely, if ever, modeled such prayer as being effective in healing."
This is BS. Last summer I was in hospital they had to change my Foley catheter. If you don't know, that involves sticking something in the end of your penis. It's the most painful experience ever. I called a friend in another state and asked for prayer she did pray I said I have five minutes before this goes down. She prayed I felt nothing.
Tell ass the BS you want about luck and psychosomatic effects I will never believe it because I had had new Foley' put in several times it was always totally painful;. This was the first tijme I got someone to pray about it.
I strongly suspect that the saying "Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him." is a parable. The mountain is Mount Zion (i.e., the Temple and its Judeocentric worship). The sea is the nations (i.e., the Gentiles).
Interpretation: The faith of the Apostles will lift up Mount Zion (the Temple worship of God) and spread (cast) it amongst the gentile nations (the sea), and the result will be Christianity.
Keep in mind that Jesus said this standing right outside the walls of Jerusalem. I can see Him, as He spoke the words "this mountain", pointing straight at the Temple Mount.
Do you seriously believe that God will not answer a prayer for healing if there's a physical distance greater than the span of your arm involved? That is ludicrous.
You are torturing that passage. come on he' standing in front of Jerusalem, and in front all stuff beyond the city. why make the mountain the temple? Why assume he's just brining it to "the sea" when "cast into " implies something more disruptive than preaching.
Here's another point. Paul tells someone he writes to pray for Timothy, That is encouraging long distance prayer.
9 comments:
So, proximal intercessionary prayer causes doctors the mismeasure auditory and visual tests. That is a most significant finding. :(
This strikes me as a very poorly designed "study".
If I were God (and I am not), I would do everything in my omnipotent power to make sure such "studies" indicated NOTHING.
If I were God (and I am not), I would do everything in my omnipotent power to make sure such "studies" indicated NOTHING.
February 25, 2016 8:55 PM
>>>thanks for clearing up the confusion.
Funny thing about prayer studies. When the early ones were Big (Byrd and Harris I think) atheists would argue that you can't control outside prayer. I invented a reason to trust the studies in spite of not being able to control. They didn't buy it. they aware just admit and insulting about it. Can't control outside prayer.
When studies began showing prayer has negative effect or no effect I had already accepted the notion that double blind studies of prayer results are impossible (they were right can't control outside prayer). I began to argue that and they said "O sure we can you don't know anything,"
We can't control for outside prayer, The idea that prayer can affect it even negatively is opposed to naturalistic view. It's really an issue of proof and boarders on epistemology. So the only real reliable evidence would be the kind of study they do at Lourdes. straight up one shot empirical.
I discussed this with a member of the Lourdes medical committee.
From the article by Deem: "Numerous other prayer studies have shown little of no effect of distant intercessory prayer. However neither Jesus, nor the New Testament disciples, rarely, if ever, modeled such prayer as being effective in healing."
This is BS. Last summer I was in hospital they had to change my Foley catheter. If you don't know, that involves sticking something in the end of your penis. It's the most painful experience ever. I called a friend in another state and asked for prayer she did pray I said I have five minutes before this goes down. She prayed I felt nothing.
Tell ass the BS you want about luck and psychosomatic effects I will never believe it because I had had new Foley' put in several times it was always totally painful;. This was the first tijme I got someone to pray about it.
If you have faith of a grain of mustard seed you can move a mountain, does that mean you have to lay hands on the mountain?
Joe,
I strongly suspect that the saying "Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him." is a parable. The mountain is Mount Zion (i.e., the Temple and its Judeocentric worship). The sea is the nations (i.e., the Gentiles).
Interpretation: The faith of the Apostles will lift up Mount Zion (the Temple worship of God) and spread (cast) it amongst the gentile nations (the sea), and the result will be Christianity.
Keep in mind that Jesus said this standing right outside the walls of Jerusalem. I can see Him, as He spoke the words "this mountain", pointing straight at the Temple Mount.
It was not meant to be taken literally.
Do you seriously believe that God will not answer a prayer for healing if there's a physical distance greater than the span of your arm involved? That is ludicrous.
You are torturing that passage. come on he' standing in front of Jerusalem, and in front all stuff beyond the city. why make the mountain the temple? Why assume he's just brining it to "the sea" when "cast into " implies something more disruptive than preaching.
Here's another point. Paul tells someone he writes to pray for Timothy, That is encouraging long distance prayer.
I think there are better ways to deal with that study than to deny the efficacy of long distance prayer,
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