Saturday, January 02, 2016

Deep down inside, atheists really believe in God

See here.  But in my experience claims like this, on both sides are a whole lot easier to make than to show to be true.

17 comments:

Dan Gillson said...

That's pretty obviously a question begging argument: "Calvin and the Bible say that Atheists really believe in God, therefore atheists really believe in God." I mean, really.

Jeffery Jay Lowder said...

I just published a blog post on basically the same topic, except that my blog post was in reply to William Lane Craig. See here.

John Moore said...

Does anyone really know quantum physics? It's clear that everyone is born with an innate ignorance of quantum physics. Some people labor to persuade (educate) themselves about quantum physics, but that deep ignorance is indelibly and inescapably inscribed in their brains.

There is within the human mind, and indeed by natural instinct, a deep ignorance of the world. To prevent anyone from falling into despair due to their ignorance, God himself has implanted in all men a certain presumption, a trump card to win every argument, which is the simple phrase "God did it."

Joe Hinman said...

John Y9ou say "God himself has implanted in all men a certain presumption, a trump card to win every argument, which is the simple phrase "God did it"

What little quip do you use when people call your bluff and show no solution but God works? Then saying God did it is not some mindless montra but a logically valid conclusion.

(1) do you believe the big bang theory>

(2) so so do you know that physicists tell us that there's no "before the BB because no time.

(3) no times no causation

(4) no causation means nothing can happen

(5) SO WHERE DID THE CHANGE IN RULES THAT ALLED SOMETNHING TO HAPPENM COME FROM?

(6) can't come from anything naturalistic that requires time and thus causation, more importantly naturalistic things are under physical law.

(7) how could things caused by physical law change physical law?

(8)altering physical law is a Job for the maker o physical law,

what made something happen when there was no time?

what did it?

Joe Hinman said...

4 of 4


Blogger Dan Gillson said...
That's pretty obviously a question begging argument: "Calvin and the Bible say that Atheists really believe in God, therefore atheists really believe in God." I mean, really.
\
>>>yea pretty pathetic quoting Calvin. As I was reading that I was thinking how very different such are today than in Calvin's day.

The Bible doesn't say there are no atheists. It says the fool has said in his heart, the thing that makes him a fool is not disbelief but that he says in the heart the heart is the God finder part of the brain so to speak. In saying in the heart there is no God one is cutting off the possibility of finding God.

B. Prokop said...

Joe,

Careful there! Even the discoverer of the Big Bang, Georges Lemaitre (a Catholic Priest) insisted that his theory was in no way evidence for a Creator God, and would (metaphorically) slap down anyone who attempted to do so. Plus, there are even today all sorts of theoretical ways to account for a "before" time in the Standard Cosmological Model (the actual name for the "Big Bang").

Dan Gillson said...

Joe,

Quoting Calvin isn't itself pathetic, but when the quote you're using as a premise alreary contains your conclusion it becomes pathetic. But anyways, I was discussing the piece to which Dr Reppert linked, and you seem to have strayed off course.

Simplecarpenter said...

I'm sure my questions will seem to be completely off of the standard line of discovery with respect to the debate ,and I'm probably in way over my head but here goes anyway .# 1Do you believe that it is probable that at some point in the future ,given enough time ,man thru the mastery of science will achieve the ability to travel thru time ?#2 Is it a certainty that at some point in the past it occurred to the first Human to lie and if so why ? I'm interested to find out where you egg heads are capable of taking these questions , by way of logical extension ,
almost certainly further then I .

B. Prokop said...

"Do you believe that it is probable that at some point in the future, given enough time, man thru the mastery of science will achieve the ability to travel thru time?"

No.

"Is it a certainty that at some point in the past it occurred to the first Human to lie?"

What do you mean by "first time"? It is a certainty that people lie today, so why worry about when we first did? In any case, it's a short step from dissembling to lying, and both Adam and Cain most certainly dissembled. so dishonesty goes back to the dawn of time.

Jazu ufam tobie!

Joe Hinman said...

"Careful there! Even the discoverer of the Big Bang, Georges Lemaitre (a Catholic Priest) insisted that his theory was in no way evidence for a Creator God, and would (metaphorically) slap down anyone who attempted to do so. Plus, there are even today all sorts of theoretical ways to account for a "before" time in the Standard Cosmological Model (the actual name for the "Big Bang")."

>>>most of them do that by turning time into space, treating it as such and speaking "beyond" not before. none that I know of actually posit time before time.

Joe Hinman said...

Dan I did not say quoting Calvin is pathetic all time, just that quote. bIf I wanted to defend predestination Calvin is my go to guy. But I am foreordained to be a free will guy.

Joe Hinman said...

I don't know if time travel is possible but I am waiting for your argument. My club back in the 30th century will be interested.

brownmamba said...

There's a pretty obvious incentive for Christians to believe that honest atheists don't exist. On a Christian view, if atheists are being honest, then they would be damned for simply believing what they think to be true. But if the self-proclaimed atheists actually suppress their belief in God and, moreover, do so because they want to engage in "sin", then it's much easier for Christians to view the atheists as deserving of their punishment. This charge reveals more about the insecurities of Christians than that of atheists.

The charge is also demonstrably false given the number of ex-Christians who stress about their lost faith. Just read the number of letters written to William Lane Craig about how the writer distressed about losing his faith until Dr. Craig saved the day. (Is it plausible all such people are eventually "rescued"?).

Again, I don't take this charge very seriously.

Victor Reppert said...

Only Christians who think that people go to hell simply in virtue of not being Christians have a motive to maintain that there are no honest atheists. That wouldn't be me, I rejected that position more than 40 years ago.

Joe Hinman said...

VR>:"Only Christians who think that people go to hell simply in virtue of not being Christians have a motive to maintain that there are no honest atheists. That wouldn't be me, I rejected that position more than 40 years ago."

So did I, actually 40 years ago too.

Joe Hinman said...


January 04, 2016 3:54 PM
Delete
Blogger brownmamba said...
There's a pretty obvious incentive for Christians to believe that honest atheists don't exist. On a Christian view, if atheists are being honest, then they would be damned for simply believing what they think to be true. But if the self-proclaimed atheists actually suppress their belief in God and, moreover, do so because they want to engage in "sin", then it's much easier for Christians to view the atheists as deserving of their punishment. This charge reveals more about the insecurities of Christians than that of atheists.

>>> I go into more detail on it on Metacrock's Blog




"The charge is also demonstrably false given the number of ex-Christians who stress about their lost faith. Just read the number of letters written to William Lane Craig about how the writer distressed about losing his faith until Dr. Craig saved the day. (Is it plausible all such people are eventually "rescued"?).

Again, I don't take this charge very seriously."


>>>It's not a matter of falsehood but self deception. I do all people have sense or hit a trace of God's reality. I don't think they are consciously resisting it and I don't think they go to hell. I see hell as a metaphor for spiritual death.

Simplecarpenter said...

I guess I was wrong , the majority of you here are incapable of independent thought, beam me up Scotty.