Sunday, October 21, 2012

Would a Romney Victory Advance the Conservative Cause?

Probably. But maybe not.

One problem you might run into is that if Obama goes to his left, Republicans will oppose him. But if Romney goes left, it has a better chance of sticking. If Hubert Humphrey had gone to China, he would have been called a communist appeaser and would have gotten zero bipartisan support. If Romney repeals Obamacare and replaces it with something equally socialistic, or supports an assault weapons ban, Republicans won't put up a pitched battle against him. If he goes "multiple choice" on abortion, he could do more harm to the right to life than Obama ever could.

I would maintain that an Romney election would probably advance the conservative cause more than an Obama re-election. But maybe not be nearly as much as most people think.

Meanwhile, the hard left can barely tolerate Obama.

33 comments:

Syllabus said...

For certain values of "conservative", sure.

Bilbo said...

Vic,

You would call Robert Reich and Paul Krugman "hard left"?

Matt DeStefano said...

I'd be curious to hear how the Christians here feel about Romney's Mormonism, especially given this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6udew9axmdM

Victor Reppert said...

Well, don't ask me. I wouldn't vote for Romney anyway. I have imagined discussions between Mitt Romney and Joseph Smith and Brigham Young over his support of the claim that marriage is a relation between one man and one woman, established by God, which cannot be changed. That would be an interesting one.

I have seen Doug Groothuis say that we are electing a commander in chief, not a pastor in chief.

Bilbo said...

I disagree with Mormonism, but I'm not voting for Romney because I disagree with his policies, not his religion.

I suspect that religion hasn't become an issue in this election because the Christian Right realizes that if they try attacking Obama with religion, it would boomerang rather badly on Romney.

Syllabus said...

Romney's religion is the smallest factor in my assessment of him as a potential presidential candidate.

Crude said...

If Romney repeals Obamacare and replaces it with something equally socialistic, or supports an assault weapons ban, Republicans won't put up a pitched battle against him.

This was easier to believe before the Tea Party arrived on the scene and showed a very strong willingness to not only run candidates against incumbents, but actually vote for them in enough numbers for it to matter. I remember when Bush originally tried to nominate that one woman to the SCOTUS, and you simply couldn't contain the conservative pushback.

That's not to say Romney's great. I think of him as 'hopefully less hideous than Obama, politically and socially'. But conservatives actually have a recent (though imperfect) track record of political response to such things.

As for Matt's video: 'still vastly less crazy or worrying than what the average straight-up atheist-materialist believes'. I suppose the implied argument is 'Christians should not vote for atheists if they find their religious views unpalatable'. Noted. ;)

Also, Victor,

Meanwhile, the hard left can barely tolerate Obama.

Exactly how hard left are we talking? Because every hard leftist I see who isn't way, way the heck off into crazy-ass "Literally has a picture of Lenin on their wall" land, likes Obama.

Matt DeStefano said...

As for Matt's video: 'still vastly less crazy or worrying than what the average straight-up atheist-materialist believes'. I suppose the implied argument is 'Christians should not vote for atheists if they find their religious views unpalatable'. Noted. ;)


I knew you were off the reservation, but now I know just how far.

Crude said...

I knew you were off the reservation, but now I know just how far.

How adorable. But you know I'm right: put Alex Rosenberg or the like alongside a full-blown voodoo practicing witch doctor. Have them both speak frankly about their views of the world. The guy covered in chicken blood will win the sanity contest.

Anyway, I don't mean to hold you back. After all, there are some people out there leaning towards Romney despite his friendliness towards Israel. Better link some videos about 'the truth behind judaism'! ;)

B. Prokop said...

This election reminds me of the one we had some years back for governor here in Maryland. The candidates were Parris Glendening (the incumbent) and Ellen Sauerbrey. I thought in despair, "Great, I have to choose between an incompetent and a lunatic!"

I did my civic duty, held my nose, and voted for the lesser of two evils.

BenYachov said...

>I'd be curious to hear how the Christians here feel about Romney's Mormonism...

It's false teaching but then again the only President with the nominally correct religion was JFK.

I prefer the Mormon dude who will restore my Civil Rights as a Catholic to the "United Church of Christ" guy with the Muslim name who wants to fine my brothers $3,500 for refusing to buy birth control for heathens like him that they could buy themselves.

It's a basic question of civil liberties of which supporters of Obama clearly reject.

B. Prokop said...

Ben, Ben, Ben...

whatever valid point you may have hoped to make in your last posting was totally overshadowed by the appearance (whether or not it is there) of bigotry and prejudice in your use of the words "guy with the Muslim name".

You of all people should avoid such poison like a hot stove top. I have to distance myself as far as possible from such sentiments.

Argue policies if you wish, but let's leave people's names out of this. How about my own name? A first name that originates deep within Teutonic paganism and a last name shared with a notorious Medieval anti-Semite. I'd hate for someone to judge me on those grounds.

cl said...

Matt,

Great question. Due to the highly sensitive nature of my reply, I've decided to post it at my own place.

On Romney, Obama, Mormonism & More.

BenYachov said...

Don't be silly Bob.

>whatever valid point you may have hoped to make in your last posting was totally overshadowed by the appearance (whether or not it is there) of bigotry and prejudice in your use of the words "guy with the Muslim name".

So what your telling me Bob is Obama should be ashamed of his Muslim name? Bringing it up is bigotry? No Bob that is irrational. I would vote in a heartbeat for any pro-life conservative, Pro-Israel, tax-cutter, anti-Jihadist, supporter of religious rights etc named Muhammad or Ahmed.

It should surprise you some Muslim converts to Christianity don't change their names? Obama is at minimum validly baptized thus a Christian son of a Muslim turned Atheist.

I could with ease vote for Obama if he where A) not against the First Amendment for Catholics and B) farther to the Right then he happens to be.

Geez Bob! Biden is "Catholic" with an Irish name like I'd vote for him or JFK?

BTW my Italian Catholic maternal Grandfather of Happy Memory a blue collier Republican voted for Nixon.
I am very proud of Him.

>You of all people should avoid such poison like a hot stove top. I have to distance myself as far as possible from such sentiments.

This is wise since it is you who are ashamed of Obama's name. I'm not & I wouldn't be if he where not so anti-Catholic and not a conservative.

>Argue policies if you wish, but let's leave people's names out of this. How about my own name? A first name that originates deep within Teutonic paganism and a last name shared with a notorious Medieval anti-Semite. I'd hate for someone to judge me on those grounds.

Adolf is a lovely name & it doesn't cease to be because of one ex-Catholic turned Deistic pagan who became Chancellor of Germany.

Sorry Bob but I just don't have your liberal sense of political correctness.

That is the way it is brother.

Peace be with you.

B. Prokop said...

Ben,

It's not "political correctness" and you know that perfectly well, despite your unconvincing protestations. I know bigotry when I smell it, and I caught a whiff of it there. Your follow-up only confirmed what were until then only suspicions.

BenYachov said...

Geez Bob I've frequented Coptic & Melikite eastern rite Catholic Churches where they refer to God as Allah.

But I forgive you my brother for implying I am a bigot and I do so in the Name of Yesua Al Mesin Al Ibn Miriam Al Ibn Allah.

Al Mesin Alakbar!!!

La Allah Ala Allah Yesa Al Mesin Al Kalam Allah! :-)

B. Prokop said...

And I write this only because I mostly respect you (despite your often over-the-top language).

If you were, say, Ilion, I wouldn't bother to respond.

B. Prokop said...

I hope I didn't leave the impression I was calling you a bigot! But I stand by my statement that you were employing bigoted language - and that is genuinely beneath you.

BenYachov said...

But Bob seriously. Political correctness is liberal bigotry.

Liberals are ashamed of Obama's Muslim name. If I was a liberal supporter of his I wouldn't be & I would call on him to use it(he joked at the Al Smith dinner he couldn't use it).

I really would support a Muslim or a Christian with a Muslim name if he where a Conservative.

Of course a Conservative wouldn't be ashamed of his name.

cl said...

B. Prokop,

I just want you to know that I can plainly see you did not say or imply what Ben accredited to you. You clearly said, "whether or not it is there," which signified that you were NOT saying, "bringing it up is bigotry." If anything, Ben's brash conclusion is irrational (doesn't flow logically). In my opinion, this isn't about political correctness, and I don't believe that's what you were getting at (correct me if I'm wrong). I took yours as an admonition towards the examples of humility and meekness in Scripture, wholly rational, and sorely needed—by all of us.

BenYachov said...

Obama has a Muslim name! Obama has a Muslim name! Obama has a Muslim name! Obama has a Muslim name! Obama has a Muslim name!

BenYachov has a Celtic name and a Hebrew Internet Nick Name.

Just call me Ibn Yacob!

Which I would post as if this Blog didn't limit me to my Google account.

BenYachov said...

cl at this point if I called the sky blue you would post "No it's not!".

Really, grow up son.

BenYachov said...

>But I stand by my statement that you were employing bigoted language

I stand by mine that is PC bullshit.

No and's no if's not but's.

PC nonsense, nothing more.

>- and that is genuinely beneath you

I believe it is beneath you since that still implies PC liberal bigotry and being ashamed of the Presidents name.

I am not ashamed my President's name.

I am ashamed of everything else about him (his policies, his socialism, hatred of Civil rights for Catholics etc, his weakinging of America).

But his name is the lest shameful thing about him. Of course it's not shameful at all.

Barack is Fr. Grotechel's name in Arabic!

I know my Arabic and I know God would bless the Arabs like he Blessed Ishmael for being a Son of Abraham.

B. Prokop said...

Actually, Barack is a Hebrew name. Wasn't Jeremiah's scribe named Baruch, which is a variant spelling?

BenYachov said...

Yes Baruch is the Hebrew of Barack!

Just as Yacob is Arabic for Yachov which in Greek is James my First name and name of my Fathers which I am not ashamed of BTW.

The children of Orthodox Jewish friends of Fr. Grotechel would call him Abba Baruch.

A lot of Muslim names or Arabic Christian names are Arabic renditions of original Hebrew names.

Ya got nothing on me Brother I've been around.

B. Prokop said...

So why are ya saying he has a Muslim name? (in a negative context by the way - and it was you who injected the negativity into it, not me)

Ben, give it up. It's time for you to "repent and believe".

BenYachov said...

Sorry Bob but it must be you who "repents and believes".

When you point a fingers at someone three are pointed back at you.

Trying to take the stick out ignoring the log in your own etc...

This is what I said in response to Matt's question about Mitt being a Mormon.

QUOTE" I prefer the Mormon dude who will restore my Civil Rights as a Catholic to the 'United Church of Christ' guy with the Muslim name who wants to fine my brothers $3,500 for refusing to buy birth control for heathens like him that they could buy themselves.

It's a basic question of civil liberties of which supporters of Obama clearly rejects."

How you got "He should not be voted for because he is named Barak Hussen Obama" from the above I will never understand.

But I am not a liberal.

But hey I can't make you do the obvious brother.

BenYachov said...

Taken at face value a reader can only conclude I reject Obama because he rejects civil rights for Catholics.

Which he does.

BenYachov said...

>So why are ya saying he has a Muslim name?

Why not say it? It's a fact & it's descriptive.

>(in a negative context by the way - and it was you who injected the negativity into it, not me)

No that would be Matt for asking what Christians think of Romeny's Mormonism & it's obvious heterodox doctrines.

Of all the Presidents only JFK belonged to a Church with the correct doctrine.

Neither Romney nor Obama qualify. But their heresies don't effect my vote.

BenYachov said...

Geez this is how I talk about politics. Give nicknames.

I'd didn't vote for John McCain the last time around.

I proudly voted for Sarah Palin(be still my heart)the Queen of the North and Old Dude(what was his name again?).

cl said...

B. Prokop,

If you feel it would be good, would you mind dropping a comment anywhere on my blog, so that I can get your email and send you a message? If not, no big deal, enjoy the day :)

B. Prokop said...

What is the URL of your blog?

cl said...

You can get it by clicking the blue "cl" in my comments, but here it is:

http://www.thewarfareismental.net