dangerous idea

This is a blog to discuss philosophy, chess, politics, C. S. Lewis, or whatever it is that I'm in the mood to discuss.

Friday, June 10, 2011

Russell on Fideistic Faith: Pusillanimous and sniveling?

A redated post. 

There is something pusillanimous and sniveling about this point of view, that makes me scarcely able to consider it with patience. To refuse to face facts merely because they are unpleasant is considered the mark of a weak character, except in the sphere of religion. I do not see how it can be ignoble to yield to the tyranny of fear in all terrestrial matters, but noble and virtuous to do the same things where God and the future life are concerned.

Bertrand Russell, The Value of Free Thought (1944).

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posted by Victor Reppert @ 4:39 PM  

12 Comments:

  • At April 09, 2009 8:48 PM , Blogger JD Walters said...

    "To refuse to face facts merely because they are unpleasant is considered the mark of a weak character, except in the sphere of religion."

    This passage reminds me, not of theists who refuse to face the facts about an impersonal universe, but of atheists who reject belief in God because he is a God of judgment as well as love and because of all the bad things God is supposed to have done in the OT.

     

  • At April 09, 2009 9:26 PM , Blogger Walter said...

    This passage reminds me, not of theists who refuse to face the facts about an impersonal universe, but of atheists who reject belief in God because he is a God of judgment as well as love and because of all the bad things God is supposed to have done in the OT.

    Yahweh's behavior in the Hebrew Bible does give me pause. Yahweh does not act like the same deity as Jesus. Maybe Marcion was on to something?

     

  • At April 09, 2009 11:18 PM , Blogger JD Walters said...

    Jesus did his fair share of condemning and consigning people to 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'. To focus only on the mercy he showed to (repentant) sinners is to forget that he saw himself as the harbinger of God's final judgment. The dichotomy between the OT God of Wrath and the NT God of Love is a false one.

     

  • At April 10, 2009 4:47 AM , Blogger Walter said...

    Jesus sought to save people; Yahweh just slaughtered those outside of his chosen tribe.

     

  • At June 11, 2011 6:00 AM , Blogger GREV said...

    "Jesus sought to save people; Yahweh just slaughtered those outside of his chosen tribe."

    What do you make then of passages in Revelation where Jesus is clearly not in the saving business anymore?

    Word verification -- pitypo

     

  • At June 11, 2011 6:24 AM , Blogger Walter said...

    What do you make then of passages in Revelation where Jesus is clearly not in the saving business anymore?

    Well, my original comment is about two years old, and I see what you and JD were saying. Still, though, there seems to be a pretty large disconnect between the moral character of Jesus and that of Old Testament Yahweh. A lot of Christians today see "peace-n-love" Jesus as having come to save us from the wrath of his angry, judgmental Daddy. Marcion recognized the disconnect as far back as the early second century, motivating him to contend that Jesus was not a Jew, and that Jesus' father was a greater deity than the bloodthirsty tyrant portrayed in the Tanakh.

     

  • At June 11, 2011 7:31 AM , Blogger Bilbo said...

    Walter: "Jesus sought to save people; Yahweh just slaughtered those outside of his chosen tribe."

    I'm not sure that's an accurate portrayal of Yahweh's actions. The plagues are visited on the Egyptians because Pharaoh refuses to let the Hebrews go free.

    The other tribes in the promised land are slaughtered, because they have been involved in the worship of other gods, especially those gods who require human sacrifice. Had the other tribes given up their other gods or left the promised land, Yahweh wouldn't have required that they be slaughtered.

    We can accuse Yahweh of religious intolerance, if we wish. But if it is true that Yahweh is the one and only true God, and that all other gods are either demons or do not exist, then one can sort of see His point.

    Why only slaughter idolaters in the promised land? Location, location, location. If you want to start a religion that you claim is universally true, having it at the center or near the major trade routes between Africa, Asia, and Europe, helps a lot.

     

  • At June 11, 2011 7:35 AM , Blogger Bilbo said...

    Russell: "To refuse to face facts merely because they are unpleasant is considered the mark of a weak character..."

    Ah, but to refuse to face the fact that one is dying of cancer can very often help one defeat cancer. Refusing to face the fact that one will be defeated by the overwhelming forces of the enemy can very often help one defeat the enemy. To refuse to face the fact that life is essentially an accident and has no eternal meaning, can very often help one to find meaning.

     

  • At June 11, 2011 7:44 AM , Blogger Walter said...

    The other tribes in the promised land are slaughtered, because they have been involved in the worship of other gods, especially those gods who require human sacrifice. Had the other tribes given up their other gods or left the promised land, Yahweh wouldn't have required that they be slaughtered.

    Did Yahweh "reveal" himself as the only true god to these other tribes, as he supposedly did with his favorite tribe? One can only speculate, but apparently he did not. Also, based on some passages in the Hebrew bible, I'm not so sure that the ancient Israelites did not condone and engage in human sacrifice, themselves.

    Why only slaughter idolaters in the promised land? Location, location, location. If you want to start a religion that you claim is universally true, having it at the center or near the major trade routes between Africa, Asia, and Europe, helps a lot.

    I would think that an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God might want to start a universal religion by revealing himself to people all over the globe. Imagine the first Europeans discovering the Americas, the Far East, or Australia only to find a fully developed, universal belief in Yahweh/Jesus. That would certainly abolish all doubts in my mind as to the one true religion.

     

  • At June 12, 2011 1:25 PM , Blogger Bilbo said...

    Walter: "Did Yahweh "reveal" himself as the only true god to these other tribes, as he supposedly did with his favorite tribe? One can only speculate, but apparently he did not."

    I agree that we can only speculate. If we assume, for the moment, that the Exodus story and the book of Joshua are historical, then we can say that Yahweh was revealing Himself through the miraculous events of redeeming Israel and bringing it into the promised land. People such as the harlot (Rahab?) in Jericho, or the prophet Balaam in Midian, recognized this. One of them made peace with Yahweh, while the other found a way to not to.

    "Also, based on some passages in the Hebrew bible, I'm not so sure that the ancient Israelites did not condone and engage in human sacrifice, themselves."

    Yes, and they are condemned by the prophets of Israel, and eventually the nation of Israel is judged for it.

    "I would think that an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God might want to start a universal religion by revealing himself to people all over the globe."

    Again, we can only speculate as to whether or not Yahweh tried this approach. Abraham is called the father of faith. Is it because he was the only one to whom Yahweh revealed Himself? Or was it because he was the only one (or the first one?) willing to leave his homeland and follow Yahweh wherever He led him? Either way, it seems that Yahweh wanted to accomplish His purposes in a way similar to a seed growing into a tree. It starts with one person and grows out organically to include all of humanity.

    "Imagine the first Europeans discovering the Americas, the Far East, or Australia only to find a fully developed, universal belief in Yahweh/Jesus. That would certainly abolish all doubts in my mind as to the one true religion."

    Yes. Maybe Yahweh is much less interested in abolishing your doubts and more interested in your reaching out to Him, as Abraham no doubt had to do on many an occasion, or at least wrestling with Him, as Jacob did.

     

  • At June 12, 2011 6:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    I read the Old Testament very allegorically (as I think it should be read in that manner), so this alleged "Cruel and Despotic Yahweh!" stuff doesn't bother me in the least bit.

     

  • At June 12, 2011 6:56 PM , Blogger Walter said...

    I read the Old Testament very allegorically (as I think it should be read in that manner), so this alleged "Cruel and Despotic Yahweh!" stuff doesn't bother me in the least bit.

    That's one way of reconciling the belief in a benevolent God with the fairly nasty deity found in the Hebrew bible. Only problem with that method is: one can allegorize away anything they have a hard time with in the bible. Don't believe in miracles like a literal resurrection? No problem. Just read the story as an allegory.

     

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