Carr: Anonynous is correct.
The miracles in the New Testament can be treated to exactly the same analysis with which Christians treat the stories in the Book of Mormon and the Koran.
See my article Miracles and the Book of Mormon at
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/mirc1.htm
VR: The fact that Mormons claim that the angel Moroni revealed the book of Mormon to Joseph Smith on gold plates is not sufficient to condemn their doctrine. The Mormons believe a bunch of stuff that is contradicted by the evidence, and this is something that goes over and above the mere fact that their doctrine commits them to the miraculous. For example, if they are right, we should expect a DNA similarity between Native Americans and Jews, but there is none, if Mormonism is true we should expect Native Americans to have developed wheel technology enough to have chariots, but they don't, etc. Accepting the Christian story involves accepting divine intervention, but it doesn't commit me to the sort of conflict with the facts that Mormonism requires.
I am providing a link to an old post of mine on Mormonism, which makes essentially these points.
4 comments:
I don't understand this posting.
My article on Miracles and the Book of Mormon never mentions any angels or Golden Plates.
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/mirc1.htm
The only thing I use on Mormonism are Christian analyses of the stories.
The article shows that techniques used by Christians to analyse the stories in the Book or Mormon and the Koran can also be used to analyse the miracle stories in the NT.
Granted there are other problems with the Book of Mormon, but then there are other problems with Christianity.
My article simply shows that sceptics don't single out Christian scriptures for special treatment.
Right, Steven.
Scholars use the same standards for evaluating the Biblical texts as they use for any other ancient text.
Seems Victor would like to insist that they have to adopt the Christian belief system before their critical analysis can be taken seriously.
Most scholars believe the gospels are referring to some actual historical event(s). Just like they think Thucydides is also referring to some actual historical events.
One peculiar problem they have to deal with in analysing the gospels is all the contradictions to be found when they are compared to each other. Not to mention that the Jesus as portrayed in John seems quite different than the Jesus in the synoptics. Really doesn't have as much to do with whether or not one believes in the supernatual, as Victor keeps trying to claim.
Also, Steven does a good job on his web page of noting some of the peculiar similarities between Jesus' life and passages from the old testament.
You echoed Victor's rather broad claim that historians treat the Bible differently than other ancient texts. But I didn't see you providing any support for your claim. The fact that historians realize that the speeches in Thucydides were made up actually undermines your claim. Contra your claim, all ancient texts receive a fair amount of critical scrutiny.
By the way, I'm the anonymous who posted above you. I finally figured out how to post without having to give a web page!
Ed,
I believe the original point had to do with how biblical scholars were treating the text of the Bible. Were they somehow using special rules that they wouldn't normally apply to other ancient texts.
Victor said, "a treatment of biblical texts which differs from the way in which other texts from the same time period are treated by scholars."
I've yet to see any evidence to support that claim.
You are correct in pointing out that non-believrs can take a more critical look at the Bible and aren't restricted to relying on scholarly methodologies.
Also, your point about trying to understand the message the ancient writer was trying to convey is very important.
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