This is a blog to discuss philosophy, chess, politics,
C. S. Lewis, or whatever it is that I'm in the mood to discuss.
Friday, April 29, 2022
Tax fairness and the "free" market
How free is our market, really? Let's look at that tax loophole mentioned in this article. Corporations have to be taxed one way or another. Why not tax them in such a way that they are encouraged to pay their executives in an ethical manner?
I don't care for either of the authoritarian regimes of Russia or Ukraine. I do care that innocent people are being killed with my tax dollars in a war that concerns wealthy Europe and not us.
You shouldn't soil your friend's site with profanity. I suggest you delete your comment before Victor uses Google translate to finds out what you said.
"Cheese and gin" doesn't seem to have the punch that "Brie and Chablis" has as an attempted insult.
But as long as the cheese is Stilton, I won't argue. In fact, some time ago at a party, someone asked "What would you ask for as a Last Meal, if you were about to be executed. My answer was, "Stilton cheese and Jacob's Creme Crackers."
Now hold it a minute, bmiller. You think that closing a tax loophole to protect CEO pay from taxation is a bad idea because we shouldn't be supporting the Ukrainians against the Russians???
Actually, I don't think arguments from hypocrisy do much. For example, a chain-smoking doctor who advises against smoking is still right, and the fact that he's a complete hypocrite by continuing to chain-smoke is neither here nor there. Hypocrisy can be a problem, but using your opponent's hypocrisy to invalidate their position is a logical mistake.
The Pharisees also were not impressed with what Jesus said. In fact they violently opposed his teaching. You don't seem to understand what His point was.
I am not sure you do either. Whatever Jesus's point is, it cannot be allowed to become a nuclear argument against any moral objection to any instance of moral conduct. Otherwise, if you say "Abortion is wrong," the abortion defender could say "But you support capital punishment, and that's wrong. You're a hypocrite, so we don't have to even consider your arguments that abortion is wrong. Take the plank out of your eye, or you won't be able to see my sins clearly."
I think you have to distinguish between judging a person and judging a type of action. If you are "judgmental" if you hold that certain types of actions are morally unacceptable, either policies that help the rich get richer, or policies that deny the worth of the unborn, then moral discourse comes to a screeching halt. Jesus, for example, famously opposed certain types of judgmental conduct against adulterers, but none of this counts against the wrongness of adultery.
As a pro-lifer, you heard arguments a million times to the effect that "You're pro-life, but you support X. so you're a hypocrite and your pro-life convictions count for nothing." Mo pro-lifer I know is impressed by these kinds of arguments, and for good reason. But you're doing the same thing to the person who wants to close the tax loophole on CEO pay that gets done to pro-lifers on a daily basis.
Whataboutism is a deadly poison to moral discourse.
The article says closing this loophole will "save" taxpayers $50 billion over 10 years.
Why not save that much this week alone by not sending weapons to Ukraine? Save money and lives. What a concept!
My point is that if you want to *save taxpayers money on the order of $5 billion/year, then, if you are serious, you could just not spend $40 billion right now that will certainly get thousands more people killed. If you've paid attention, you would have noticed that this point does not advocate not taxing corporations in the manner suggested, only that there are bigger and more urgent fish to fry.
I actually expected people who were members of Veterans for Peace and those who opposed the Gulf War to agree with me. At least to the extent that we shouldn't be spending taxpayer dollars on killing innocent people and wreaking a country. I was surprised at that, but more surprised of the criticism of the Word of God from a Christian.
Mo pro-lifer I know is impressed by these kinds of arguments, and for good reason.
The good reason is that this type of abortion advocate misrepresents the pro-life position in the first place. To accuse the pro-life position of hypocrisy by misrepresenting that position is merely a straw man fallacy, not a legitimate criticism.
*The word "save" in this context assumes that revenue lawfully generated and spent from the operations of a "private" company actually belong to the government. Sounds like fascism to me. Now I think it would be interesting to calmly and dispassionately discuss the pros and cons of all possible forms of government. Maybe fascism is the way to go. Or the other famous form of leftism, communism. Monarchy has been the historical standard, so maybe that is the best form. The American experiment is an outlier and it seems there are many people who want to extinguish it these days. We should discuss what is next.
I stated that a president had mental problems and wanted to start a World War while interpreting statements in a manner that implies evil intent by the president or his regime.
I did the same type of thing yesterday and my comment was deleted. There was no explanation, so I'm interested to see if that one will be deleted also. I see that Starhopper approves (as I expected since it's actually his opinion that he's expressed many times), so I wonder what that previous statement contained that was off-limits.
bmiller, My point is that if you want to *save taxpayers money on the order of $5 billion/year, then, if you are serious, you could just not spend $40 billion right now that will certainly get thousands more people killed.
Most of the time, I would agree with this. However, Russia is conducting civilian slaughter on a wide-scale level after they take cities. Spending the money for Ukraine's defenses might actually result in fewer lives lost.
It's interesting that crude atheist criticisms don't seem to get deleted but oppositional political criticisms do. It seems to indicate what one holds closest to one's heart.
It has been my experience that things delete themselves all the time on the internet. Just last week, I received an e-mail, read it, and left it in my inbox. Two days later, I wanted to re-read it, and it had disappeared. I thought to myself, "Well, perhaps I inadvertently deleted it?" So I checked my trash folder. Not there. I checked all my other folders. Not there.
Bottom line: The e-mail disappeared through no action of mine, so it must have deleted itself. Perhaps that's what happened to your posting.
Definitely not a heavy metal fan. Couldn't get past the intro - my head felt like it was starting to split open. I can't imagine listening to that live. Must have been sheer hell.
Couldn't you have linked to something like "Where have all the flowers gone?" or something like that? You know, music?
The article says closing this loophole will "save" taxpayers $50 billion over 10 years.
ReplyDeleteWhy not save that much this week alone by not sending weapons to Ukraine? Save money and lives. What a concept!
bmiller - yet another Trump cultist for Putin. Figures, if you like one authoritarian demagogue, you'll like 'em all.
ReplyDeleteRUSSKIJ KORABL', IDI NA KHUJ!
Dear member of Veterans for War.
ReplyDeleteI don't care for either of the authoritarian regimes of Russia or Ukraine. I do care that innocent people are being killed with my tax dollars in a war that concerns wealthy Europe and not us.
And BTW.
ReplyDeleteYou shouldn't soil your friend's site with profanity. I suggest you delete your comment before Victor uses Google translate to finds out what you said.
It's a bumper sticker on my car, and I also have a coffee mug with the quote on it. I'm drinking from it right now.
ReplyDeleteThe only "profanity" is what Putin and his enablers are inflicting on the innocent victims in Ukraine.
Luke 6:45
ReplyDeleteMatthew 4:6
ReplyDeleteThe Devil you say!
ReplyDelete'Twas my point. Even the devil can quote scripture for his own demonic purposes. So take care!
ReplyDeleteI guess you know that well.
ReplyDeleteI learned it from reading your many comments. Had to wear a mask while doing so, however. The smell of sulfur was almost overpowering.
ReplyDeleteThe Sinister get steamed and their bowels loosen when they hear the Truth I guess.
ReplyDeleteThat cheese and gin you've been consuming may be playing at least a part.
ReplyDelete"Cheese and gin" doesn't seem to have the punch that "Brie and Chablis" has as an attempted insult.
ReplyDeleteBut as long as the cheese is Stilton, I won't argue. In fact, some time ago at a party, someone asked "What would you ask for as a Last Meal, if you were about to be executed. My answer was, "Stilton cheese and Jacob's Creme Crackers."
I resent being told my insult was cheesy.
ReplyDeleteWell, at the least it was full of holes.
ReplyDeleteNow hold it a minute, bmiller. You think that closing a tax loophole to protect CEO pay from taxation is a bad idea because we shouldn't be supporting the Ukrainians against the Russians???
ReplyDeleteNo sequitur.
It's as much a non sequitur as Matthew 7:5. I don't mind the comparison.
ReplyDeleteActually, I don't think arguments from hypocrisy do much. For example, a chain-smoking doctor who advises against smoking is still right, and the fact that he's a complete hypocrite by continuing to chain-smoke is neither here nor there. Hypocrisy can be a problem, but using your opponent's hypocrisy to invalidate their position is a logical mistake.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AQ0AK7C/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
The Pharisees also were not impressed with what Jesus said. In fact they violently opposed his teaching. You don't seem to understand what His point was.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure you do either. Whatever Jesus's point is, it cannot be allowed to become a nuclear argument against any moral objection to any instance of moral conduct. Otherwise, if you say "Abortion is wrong," the abortion defender could say "But you support capital punishment, and that's wrong. You're a hypocrite, so we don't have to even consider your arguments that abortion is wrong. Take the plank out of your eye, or you won't be able to see my sins clearly."
ReplyDeleteI think you have to distinguish between judging a person and judging a type of action. If you are "judgmental" if you hold that certain types of actions are morally unacceptable, either policies that help the rich get richer, or policies that deny the worth of the unborn, then moral discourse comes to a screeching halt. Jesus, for example, famously opposed certain types of judgmental conduct against adulterers, but none of this counts against the wrongness of adultery.
As a pro-lifer, you heard arguments a million times to the effect that "You're pro-life, but you support X. so you're a hypocrite and your pro-life convictions count for nothing." Mo pro-lifer I know is impressed by these kinds of arguments, and for good reason. But you're doing the same thing to the person who wants to close the tax loophole on
CEO pay that gets done to pro-lifers on a daily basis.
Whataboutism is a deadly poison to moral discourse.
Here is my original post:
ReplyDeleteThe article says closing this loophole will "save" taxpayers $50 billion over 10 years.
Why not save that much this week alone by not sending weapons to Ukraine? Save money and lives. What a concept!
My point is that if you want to *save taxpayers money on the order of $5 billion/year, then, if you are serious, you could just not spend $40 billion right now that will certainly get thousands more people killed. If you've paid attention, you would have noticed that this point does not advocate not taxing corporations in the manner suggested, only that there are bigger and more urgent fish to fry.
I actually expected people who were members of Veterans for Peace and those who opposed the Gulf War to agree with me. At least to the extent that we shouldn't be spending taxpayer dollars on killing innocent people and wreaking a country. I was surprised at that, but more surprised of the criticism of the Word of God from a Christian.
Mo pro-lifer I know is impressed by these kinds of arguments, and for good reason.
The good reason is that this type of abortion advocate misrepresents the pro-life position in the first place. To accuse the pro-life position of hypocrisy by misrepresenting that position is merely a straw man fallacy, not a legitimate criticism.
*The word "save" in this context assumes that revenue lawfully generated and spent from the operations of a "private" company actually belong to the government. Sounds like fascism to me. Now I think it would be interesting to calmly and dispassionately discuss the pros and cons of all possible forms of government. Maybe fascism is the way to go. Or the other famous form of leftism, communism. Monarchy has been the historical standard, so maybe that is the best form. The American experiment is an outlier and it seems there are many people who want to extinguish it these days. We should discuss what is next.
Trump is a crazy dictator who openly bragged about his collusion with Russia and plans on starting World War 3!
ReplyDeleteWow! It looks like bmiller is capable of "seeing the light" after all. Welcome to sanity, bmiller.
ReplyDeleteRecalling my first encounter with Starhopper.
ReplyDeleteAnd my first encounter with bmiller.
ReplyDeleteI remember that too. You really got upset at that Ogre Dude.
ReplyDeleteBut that clip left off the part where the Ogre Dude was orange. Maybe that explains the reaction better.
ReplyDeleteRegarding my statement this morning.
ReplyDeleteI stated that a president had mental problems and wanted to start a World War while interpreting statements in a manner that implies evil intent by the president or his regime.
I did the same type of thing yesterday and my comment was deleted. There was no explanation, so I'm interested to see if that one will be deleted also. I see that Starhopper approves (as I expected since it's actually his opinion that he's expressed many times), so I wonder what that previous statement contained that was off-limits.
bmiller,
ReplyDeleteMy point is that if you want to *save taxpayers money on the order of $5 billion/year, then, if you are serious, you could just not spend $40 billion right now that will certainly get thousands more people killed.
Most of the time, I would agree with this. However, Russia is conducting civilian slaughter on a wide-scale level after they take cities. Spending the money for Ukraine's defenses might actually result in fewer lives lost.
3 days and the post has not been deleted.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting that crude atheist criticisms don't seem to get deleted but oppositional political criticisms do. It seems to indicate what one holds closest to one's heart.
It has been my experience that things delete themselves all the time on the internet. Just last week, I received an e-mail, read it, and left it in my inbox. Two days later, I wanted to re-read it, and it had disappeared. I thought to myself, "Well, perhaps I inadvertently deleted it?" So I checked my trash folder. Not there. I checked all my other folders. Not there.
ReplyDeleteBottom line: The e-mail disappeared through no action of mine, so it must have deleted itself. Perhaps that's what happened to your posting.
Could be. But it's only happened to me twice here from all the times I've posted and I witnessed once for you. All 3 times were politically incorrect.
ReplyDeleteVictor has neither confirmed nor denied so it could just be Nina Jankowicz getting a head start.
ReplyDeleteOr not. Sometimes silence tells you all you need to know.
ReplyDeleteBiden's $40 million set to music.
ReplyDeleteBillion that is.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely not a heavy metal fan. Couldn't get past the intro - my head felt like it was starting to split open. I can't imagine listening to that live. Must have been sheer hell.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't you have linked to something like "Where have all the flowers gone?" or something like that? You know, music?
It's an acquired taste. Like gin.
ReplyDeleteBoth known to cause headaches.
ReplyDeleteIf only there was someone to save us from this nonsense.
ReplyDeleteHark! Could it be the King?
The Sinister Horde needs to pack up and go home. Ultra-MAGA rules, Sinister Horde drools.
ReplyDelete