seems like a self-defeating enterprise-- it calls attention to the very books you are banning or burning.
Yeah. Like the campaign against Joe Rogan at Spotify.
He'd make more money if he wasn't constrained by his contract with Spotify, but now Spotify is being cancelled if they don't get rid of him. All of that just makes more people aware of him.
I don't listen to Joe Rogan, but the fact he is making so many people plug their ears and cry for the bad man to go away almost makes me want to start.
Book burning is the original cancel culture. I take great offense in the idea of someone thinking they have the right to control what ideas I should be exposed to.
Joe Rogan is doing a lot of harm, and one way to respond to harm is to boycott people doing the harm. It's funny how so many capitalists complain about capitalism in action when they don't like the actions.
Joe Rogan is doing a lot of harm, and one way to respond to harm is to boycott people doing the harm.
I find a significant difference between "I don't like Joe Rogan, therefore I am not going to listen to him" vs "I don't like Joe Rogan, therefore I am going to demand he be silenced so that no one else can listen to him either".
Ideas you don't like should be confronted, not bullied into silence.
Let me ask you this from another framework. Should Neil Young be forced to keep his music on a platform that has content he finds harmful? If he withdraws his content, should he be forced to stay silent about it? Should Spotify be required to host Rogan?
Young doesn't need to confront Rogan. He's not qualified (being neither a doctor nor a professional debater), and debating Rogan only elevates Rogan's position from stupid and dangerous into one with the appearance of acceptability.
They can be. If I hate Joe Rogan's podcast and am mad at Spotify for hosting it, it isn't bullying for me to cancel my Spotify account or even to tell them why I am canceling.
It becomes bullying when I go public with the reason I am canceling, trying to leverage any clout I have in order to convince other people to do the same so we can financially or reputationally hurt Spotify until they are pressured to remove Rogan from their platform, because I don't like what he says and want him silenced.
One is a refusal to associate. The other is an attempt to silence. Big, big difference.
North Korean dissident Yeonmi Park was a guest of Rogan and thinks he's a defender of free speech. Must be shocking for her.
I don't think it's so much what Rogan says that infuriates people but rather who he interviews. Seems there's not much difference in this respect between NK and enraged wokesters.
As a disclaimer, I think I've only viewed a couple of his interviews, and those were UFO related or some such. So I'm no die hard Rogan fan.
I have heard that he's popular because he lets his guests talk and asks intelligent questions as if he is truly interested in what they have to say. That is unlike most of what we get today.
Staying on Spotify would be association. Ending the relationship without saying why would be deceit. Spotify gets to choose off whom it makes money, and will choose whomever makes them more money. That's capitalism.
Staying on Spotify would be association. Ending the relationship without saying why would be deceit.
What? How weird!
Spotify gets to choose off whom it makes money, and will choose whomever makes them more money. That's capitalism.
Spotify has legal agreements with their content providers. If they violate those agreements, then then they are liable. Maybe Rogan's lawyers aren't very smart, but if they are, then Spotify may be owned by Rogan.
I have to agree with One Brow on this one. There is, after all, such a thing as lying by silence.
I am under no obligation to tell any business why I am not doing business with them, and it isn't lying to do so, nor any other form of deception, let alone evil.
Regardless, I did say there was nothing wrong with Young telling Spotify why he removed his music. There is also nothing wrong with him not telling them.
Spotify has over three million podcasts on its platform. Within those podcasts will be found virtually every opinion on every subject. You can't be on Spotify without sharing it with someone you disagree with, up to and including people with views you find dangerous. Joe Rogan just happened to be in the news and is popular, so Neil Young decided to cry about it along with CNN.
There is Covid misinformation everywhere, from both sides. You can't exist in a world where you are not in some way associated with people who spread it. But frankly, Joe Rogan is just some idiot having conversations and records them. People getting their medical information from him are even bigger idiots.
Neil Young is just throwing a pathetic tantrum. He is telling Spotify employees to quit before the company eats their souls. Really, Neil?
He is telling people to pull their money from banks who don't do enough to fight climate change, and if they don't then they are intentionally destroying the climate. Really, Neil?
If saying stupid things earns a boycott and deplatforming, then hopefully everyone is out there burning their Neil Young music and demanding his albums be pulled from online, because he says incredibly stupid things.
If I've ever heard his music, I didn't know it. Couldn't name a single song of his. Most of what I recall from my parents' were disco and pop from my mom, and country and 70s rock from my dad. I guess Young could have been in there.
seems like a self-defeating enterprise-- it calls attention to the very books you are banning or burning.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Like the campaign against Joe Rogan at Spotify.
He'd make more money if he wasn't constrained by his contract with Spotify, but now Spotify is being cancelled if they don't get rid of him. All of that just makes more people aware of him.
I don't listen to Joe Rogan, but the fact he is making so many people plug their ears and cry for the bad man to go away almost makes me want to start.
ReplyDeleteBook burning is the original cancel culture. I take great offense in the idea of someone thinking they have the right to control what ideas I should be exposed to.
In a free marketplace of ideas, the Truth will always win... eventually.
ReplyDeleteIf you feel that the only way your ideas can triumph is to ban all other ideas, you must not be very confident about what you believe.
Joe Rogan is doing a lot of harm, and one way to respond to harm is to boycott people doing the harm. It's funny how so many capitalists complain about capitalism in action when they don't like the actions.
ReplyDeleteJoe Rogan is doing a lot of harm, and one way to respond to harm is to boycott people doing the harm.
ReplyDeleteI find a significant difference between "I don't like Joe Rogan, therefore I am not going to listen to him" vs "I don't like Joe Rogan, therefore I am going to demand he be silenced so that no one else can listen to him either".
Ideas you don't like should be confronted, not bullied into silence.
Boycotts are not bullying.
ReplyDeleteLet me ask you this from another framework. Should Neil Young be forced to keep his music on a platform that has content he finds harmful? If he withdraws his content, should he be forced to stay silent about it? Should Spotify be required to host Rogan?
Young doesn't need to confront Rogan. He's not qualified (being neither a doctor nor a professional debater), and debating Rogan only elevates Rogan's position from stupid and dangerous into one with the appearance of acceptability.
Boycotts are not bullying.
ReplyDeleteThey can be. If I hate Joe Rogan's podcast and am mad at Spotify for hosting it, it isn't bullying for me to cancel my Spotify account or even to tell them why I am canceling.
It becomes bullying when I go public with the reason I am canceling, trying to leverage any clout I have in order to convince other people to do the same so we can financially or reputationally hurt Spotify until they are pressured to remove Rogan from their platform, because I don't like what he says and want him silenced.
One is a refusal to associate. The other is an attempt to silence. Big, big difference.
North Korean dissident Yeonmi Park was a guest of Rogan and thinks he's a defender of free speech. Must be shocking for her.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's so much what Rogan says that infuriates people but rather who he interviews. Seems there's not much difference in this respect between NK and enraged wokesters.
As a disclaimer, I think I've only viewed a couple of his interviews, and those were UFO related or some such. So I'm no die hard Rogan fan.
ReplyDeleteI have heard that he's popular because he lets his guests talk and asks intelligent questions as if he is truly interested in what they have to say. That is unlike most of what we get today.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteStaying on Spotify would be association. Ending the relationship without saying why would be deceit. Spotify gets to choose off whom it makes money, and will choose whomever makes them more money. That's capitalism.
Staying on Spotify would be association. Ending the relationship without saying why would be deceit.
ReplyDeleteWhat? How weird!
Spotify gets to choose off whom it makes money, and will choose whomever makes them more money. That's capitalism.
Spotify has legal agreements with their content providers. If they violate those agreements, then then they are liable. Maybe Rogan's lawyers aren't very smart, but if they are, then Spotify may be owned by Rogan.
bmiller,
ReplyDeleteWhat? How weird!
Roll with the pigs, you get muddy.
Spotify has legal agreements with their content providers.
Legal agreements are certainly part of the financial analysis.
Staying on Spotify would be association.
ReplyDeleteAnd Neil Young has the right to do business, or not, with anyone he wants, for whatever reason he wants. That's not a problem.
Ending the relationship without saying why would be deceit.
I fail to see how. I do many things without explaining why, and there is no deceit involved.
Spotify gets to choose off whom it makes money, and will choose whomever makes them more money. That's capitalism.
Certainly. There is no problem there.
"Ending the relationship without saying why would be deceit."
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with One Brow on this one. There is, after all, such a thing as lying by silence.
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to [say] nothing."
Edmond Burke
I have to agree with One Brow on this one. There is, after all, such a thing as lying by silence.
ReplyDeleteI am under no obligation to tell any business why I am not doing business with them, and it isn't lying to do so, nor any other form of deception, let alone evil.
Regardless, I did say there was nothing wrong with Young telling Spotify why he removed his music. There is also nothing wrong with him not telling them.
You are under no obligation because you are not a public figure.
ReplyDelete"Obligation" toward his fans is still a stronger word than I would use in that case, but that's getting bogged down in semantics.
ReplyDeleteGuess if you're Neil Young you can't cancel your cable subscription without a detailed explanation.
ReplyDeleteAnother reason I'm glad I'm not Neil Young.
Spotify has over three million podcasts on its platform. Within those podcasts will be found virtually every opinion on every subject. You can't be on Spotify without sharing it with someone you disagree with, up to and including people with views you find dangerous. Joe Rogan just happened to be in the news and is popular, so Neil Young decided to cry about it along with CNN.
ReplyDeleteThere is Covid misinformation everywhere, from both sides. You can't exist in a world where you are not in some way associated with people who spread it. But frankly, Joe Rogan is just some idiot having conversations and records them. People getting their medical information from him are even bigger idiots.
Neil Young is just throwing a pathetic tantrum. He is telling Spotify employees to quit before the company eats their souls. Really, Neil?
He is telling people to pull their money from banks who don't do enough to fight climate change, and if they don't then they are intentionally destroying the climate. Really, Neil?
If saying stupid things earns a boycott and deplatforming, then hopefully everyone is out there burning their Neil Young music and demanding his albums be pulled from online, because he says incredibly stupid things.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteDid you ever listen to Neil Young's music? Pretty sure he was off the radar when you were growing up.
If I've ever heard his music, I didn't know it. Couldn't name a single song of his. Most of what I recall from my parents' were disco and pop from my mom, and country and 70s rock from my dad. I guess Young could have been in there.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I thought.
ReplyDeletePeople who know what Spotify is don't know who Neil Young is and vice versa.
I know what Spotify is because of my daughter. I proudly know little of either.
ReplyDeleteThe one song I remember is "Old Man"(?)
ReplyDeleteOld man take a look at my life
I'm a lot like you
etc.
"Stop, children, What's that sound? Everybody look what's goin down...
ReplyDeleteOh I know the "stop what's that sound" song. Okay, I know one more song from him than I have heard podcasts from Joe Rogan.
ReplyDelete