Maybe this is one area where the internet has actually been a Good Thing. For all the (valid) complaints about thought bubbles and news ghettos, blogs like this one have certainly provided a forum for discussing subjects that used to be regarded as taboo.
"the politics prohibition may still be a good rule for Thanksgiving"
No worries about that for this year, at least! Everyone's going to be so sick of politics by election day, that no one in their right mind would want to bring the subject up for at least 2 or 3 months.
We originally didn't discuss politics and religion in polite company because everyone had, or feigned having, a mutual respect of each other. We wanted everyone to have a chance to relax and feel welcome, regardless of their beliefs. And we were able to do that largely because everyone had the same ultimate beliefs, particularly where religion was concerned. Even the irreligious at least saw the value in adherence to Christianity.
Now, the division is deep, and people actively despise people outside of their religion - including their political religion - for the most part.
We aren't talking more. We're telling our enemies, in more and more venues, to **** off.
I try to avoid these topics (along with race) because when I'm trying to eat my lunch, or do a business transaction, or have a beer and play a game of cards, and bring up these topics at least a third of the people pour out their emotions on me. I've realized how much grief I've gotten and how few minds I've changed and have then figured it's just not worth it.
Better to vent on the internet than deal with someone claiming to be personally damaged by (name your position) on religion, politics and race. If you think you can unscrew us by talking to people about these things in person, have at it.
"I try to avoid ... bring[ing] up these topics [since] at least a third of the people pour out their emotions on me.
Better to vent on the internet than deal with someone claiming to be personally damaged by (name your position) on religion, politics and race. If you think you can unscrew us by talking to people about these things in person, have at it."
I was never told, much less taught, "not to think twice" about religion or politics. I was told that they are sensitive issues and not to assume that other people could discuss them dispassionately. If they are, then there won't be much of a prospect of changing their minds, so to discuss such things would just be to needlessly pick a fight. Of course, this excludes your close friends with whom you can talk about this stuff even if (maybe especially if) they disagree with you.
DD, If a man can be silenced because other people throw hissy-fits when he expresses his opinions, then (certain) other people will throw hiss-fits and he will be silenced. And, as throwing a hissy-fit is seen to "work", the tactic will be increasingly employed. And that's how we got to where we are today.
Wait! So is this a call for less "niceness" and more honesty?
ReplyDeleteMaybe this is one area where the internet has actually been a Good Thing. For all the (valid) complaints about thought bubbles and news ghettos, blogs like this one have certainly provided a forum for discussing subjects that used to be regarded as taboo.
ReplyDeleteAt least the politics prohibition may still be a good rule for Thanksgiving dinner with family.
ReplyDelete"the politics prohibition may still be a good rule for Thanksgiving"
ReplyDeleteNo worries about that for this year, at least! Everyone's going to be so sick of politics by election day, that no one in their right mind would want to bring the subject up for at least 2 or 3 months.
By the way, "echo chambers" was what I was trying to think of when I wrote (above) "thought bubbles". Must have had an Aleppo Moment.
ReplyDeleteWhat's an "Aleppo Momement"?
ReplyDeleteIt's what made us forget about "Having a Rick Perry moment".
ReplyDeleteWe originally didn't discuss politics and religion in polite company because everyone had, or feigned having, a mutual respect of each other. We wanted everyone to have a chance to relax and feel welcome, regardless of their beliefs. And we were able to do that largely because everyone had the same ultimate beliefs, particularly where religion was concerned. Even the irreligious at least saw the value in adherence to Christianity.
ReplyDeleteNow, the division is deep, and people actively despise people outside of their religion - including their political religion - for the most part.
We aren't talking more. We're telling our enemies, in more and more venues, to **** off.
What we have been taught is wise advice.
ReplyDeleteI try to avoid these topics (along with race) because when I'm trying to eat my lunch, or do a business transaction, or have a beer and play a game of cards, and bring up these topics at least a third of the people pour out their emotions on me. I've realized how much grief I've gotten and how few minds I've changed and have then figured it's just not worth it.
Better to vent on the internet than deal with someone claiming to be personally damaged by (name your position) on religion, politics and race. If you think you can unscrew us by talking to people about these things in person, have at it.
"I try to avoid ... bring[ing] up these topics [since] at least a third of the people pour out their emotions on me.
ReplyDeleteBetter to vent on the internet than deal with someone claiming to be personally damaged by (name your position) on religion, politics and race. If you think you can unscrew us by talking to people about these things in person, have at it."
And that is how we got to where we are today.
Well Ilion, I'm not sure my take on things is how we got where we are today. I do think Crude's comments reflect some of my own experience.
ReplyDeleteI was never told, much less taught, "not to think twice" about religion or politics. I was told that they are sensitive issues and not to assume that other people could discuss them dispassionately. If they are, then there won't be much of a prospect of changing their minds, so to discuss such things would just be to needlessly pick a fight. Of course, this excludes your close friends with whom you can talk about this stuff even if (maybe especially if) they disagree with you.
ReplyDeleteDD,
ReplyDeleteIf a man can be silenced because other people throw hissy-fits when he expresses his opinions, then (certain) other people will throw hiss-fits and he will be silenced. And, as throwing a hissy-fit is seen to "work", the tactic will be increasingly employed. And that's how we got to where we are today.
Well then, Ilion. In that case, it seems that all one has to do is to just "grab 'em by the hissy!"
ReplyDelete^ Careful! There are some truths men may not know.
ReplyDeleteToo late! I've already read The Necronomicon.
ReplyDeletePiffle. An imaginary book of imaginary horrors.
ReplyDeleteHere ia a current example of hissy-fit-as-public-discourse.
ReplyDelete