tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post7879987721320493238..comments2024-03-28T12:34:14.649-07:00Comments on dangerous idea: Chesterton on the OTFVictor Repperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10962948073162156902noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-48515681610865857242011-01-26T20:21:37.980-07:002011-01-26T20:21:37.980-07:00Sorry everyone, I cited the wrong Chesterton work....Sorry everyone, I cited the wrong Chesterton work. It's actually the opening chapter of "Orthodoxy" that has the parable of the man leaving England only to rediscover it. It's a pretty good example of the OTF.JSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00681934865643964687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-6163926523673958952010-10-02T18:28:57.619-07:002010-10-02T18:28:57.619-07:00I think Chesterton described critics such as Loftu...I think Chesterton described critics such as Loftus very well when he wrote: <br /><br />"They cannot be Christians and they cannot leave off being Anti-Christians. Their whole atmosphere is the atmosphere of a reaction: sulks, perversity, petty criticism. They still live in the shadow of the faith and have lost the light of the faith."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-42026216318633667492010-10-02T12:09:03.515-07:002010-10-02T12:09:03.515-07:00Here is a online copy of Cherstertons Everlasting ...Here is a online copy of Cherstertons Everlasting Man: http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100311.txt I have read only the beginning. But it seems that he is making the Outsider Test for Earth.<br /><br />"Far away in some strange constellation in skies infinitely remote, there<br />is a small star, which astronomers may some day discover. At least I<br />could never observe in the faces or demeanour of most astronomers or men<br />of science any evidence that they have discovered it; though as a matter<br />of fact they were walking about on it all the time. It is a star that<br />brings forth out of itself very strange plants and very strange animals;<br />and none stranger than the men of science. That at least is the way in<br />which I should begin a history of the world, if I had to follow the<br />scientific custom of beginning with an account of the astronomical<br />universe. I should try to see even this earth from the outside, not by<br />the hackneyed insistence of its relative position to the sun, but by<br />some imaginative effort to conceive its remote position for the<br />dehumanised spectator. Only I do not believe in being dehumanised in<br />order to study humanity. I do not believe in dwelling upon the distances<br />that are supposed to dwarf the world; I think there is even something a<br />trifle vulgar about this idea of trying to rebuke spirit by size. And as<br />the first idea is not feasible, that of making the earth a strange<br />planet so as to make it significant, I will not stoop to the other trick<br />of making it a small planet in order to make it insignificant. I would<br />rather insist that we do not even know that it is a planet at all, in<br />the sense in which we know that it is a place; and a very extraordinary<br />place too. That is the note which I wish to strike from the first, if<br />not in the astronomical, then in some more familiar fashion."Blaise Pascalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03299428815677198501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-78076299968697684742010-10-02T11:47:20.044-07:002010-10-02T11:47:20.044-07:00Great quote. I like this thought very much.Great quote. I like this thought very much.Blaise Pascalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03299428815677198501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-6129450268141425892010-10-01T14:10:35.864-07:002010-10-01T14:10:35.864-07:00Excellent Chesterton quotes!!!
Chesterton's...Excellent Chesterton quotes!!! <br /><br />Chesterton's "The Everlasting Man" ought to be included in the literary canon of "great books". Even if one were to reject the apologetic aspect of the book, I think any honest reader can see that Chesterton is a high caliber writer, thinker and humorist. Second to none, if you ask me.<br /><br />He is what Orthodoxy and Scripture call a "fool for Christ". He undoubtedly was an oddball. But God loves "oddballs" (1 Cor. 1:26-29; 4:10).Gregorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-40093766616586185302010-10-01T12:35:44.458-07:002010-10-01T12:35:44.458-07:00Bob Prokop writing:
T.S. Eliot said much the same...Bob Prokop writing:<br /><br />T.S. Eliot said much the same thing (though as usual, far more poetically) in "Little Gidding":<br /><br />We shall not cease from exploration<br />And the end of all our exploring<br />Will be to arrive where we started<br />And know the place for the first time.<br /><br />I think I'll give more trust to Eliot and Chesterton than I will to Loftus!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-89708246153399355612010-10-01T10:28:17.409-07:002010-10-01T10:28:17.409-07:00@Walter - Yes, it's perfectly OK to end up som...@Walter - Yes, it's perfectly OK to end up somewhere different from where you started.<br /><br />Chesterton is just addressing the weird claim that it's *not* OK to end up where you started. That, if you end up where you started, then you've failed to discover anything exotic and new.<br /><br />It's related to his extended argument in "What's Wrong With the World", where he points out that people regard "progress" as being "different from status quo", and all of the negative consequences this brings.JSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00681934865643964687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-37931243087505523412010-10-01T10:17:38.163-07:002010-10-01T10:17:38.163-07:00In fact, I think Chesterton finds a marriage of re...In fact, I think Chesterton finds a marriage of reason and passion in Christianity. It's this marriage that makes Christianity so rationally compelling. <br /><br />Life is a complex and somewhat mysterious problem to which Christianity gives a complex and somewhat mysterious answer. <br /><br />Mr Loftus is much too glib in his rejection of Christianity. The complexity of life and Christianity seem to have passed him by (even though he has some experience of both)Mr Vealehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931446615905211560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-90354704397878579352010-10-01T10:12:45.944-07:002010-10-01T10:12:45.944-07:00Can't go wrong with Chesterton!Can't go wrong with Chesterton!Mr Vealehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931446615905211560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-8385053240244188402010-10-01T04:54:32.003-07:002010-10-01T04:54:32.003-07:00Like Lewis, I immediately recognized myself in Che...<i>Like Lewis, I immediately recognized myself in Chesterton's parable. Based on my personal experience, I don't see anything wrong with people "sailing away" from a country that's become too familiar to them. But we can't rule out the possibility that the new and exotic land we seek will end up being right where we started.</i><br /><br />Some of us sailed away from "England" and discovered "America."<br /><br />The new, exotic land is not what we started with.Walternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-8283586625417196752010-09-30T23:01:42.438-07:002010-09-30T23:01:42.438-07:00Chesterton is a gem. Seeing Christianity from the...Chesterton is a gem. Seeing Christianity from the outside saved my faith. Atheists in our culture take a lot for granted in terms of morality many pagans of old would have scoffed at or have been perplexed at. That the strong should dominate the weak was an axiom in the ancient world just as infanticide was defended by the philosophers. Most atheists (besides Peter Singer, that is) are horrified by infanticide though they either deny or have forgotten why that is so. <br /><br />Seeing Christianity as something foriegn, something strange and new, definitely makes you re-examine it. If you find yourself totally outside where you are not a "atheist," or "secularist" but just outside as we are all outside of Hinduism (none of us would call ourselves non-Hindus though as Westerners we might use the term 'non-Christian'), then you can examine what Christ and his teachings relate to your life. The cultural barrier of religious baggage is removed.Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904551242524278438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-25445355377659390462010-09-30T19:40:11.008-07:002010-09-30T19:40:11.008-07:00I'm guessing this is from "Everlasting Ma...I'm guessing this is from "Everlasting Man". Chesterton starts with this great parable about a guy who sails away from England to discover a new land, discovers this new foreign and exotic land of wonder and beauty, and only later realizes he's "discovered" England.<br /><br />Like Lewis, I immediately recognized myself in Chesterton's parable. Based on my personal experience, I don't see anything wrong with people "sailing away" from a country that's become too familiar to them. But we can't rule out the possibility that the new and exotic land we seek will end up being right where we started.JSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00681934865643964687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-53808583590782213952010-09-30T19:38:45.683-07:002010-09-30T19:38:45.683-07:00This is just way too funny. Here we've been de...This is just way too funny. Here we've been debating ad nauseum the so-called John Loftus OTF (trademark), and it turns out that it was invented by a CHRISTIAN apologist long before poor Mr. Loftus was born! And even funnier, Mr. Chesterton considered the OTF to be a point IN FAVOUR OF Christianity!!! <br /><br />John, you are a fraud and a plagiarist. Ha, Ha, Ha!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com