tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post5992069515677141287..comments2024-03-27T15:34:14.749-07:00Comments on dangerous idea: Jesus was a false prophet--So What!Victor Repperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10962948073162156902noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-625008674763548362010-08-31T21:07:10.137-07:002010-08-31T21:07:10.137-07:00Now it does.Now it does.BenYachovhttp://www.catholic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-78236534262316406122010-08-30T20:44:38.513-07:002010-08-30T20:44:38.513-07:00Now I have the last word.
Feels good doesn't ...<i>Now I have the last word.</i><br /><br />Feels good doesn't it?!Walternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-92165590595828234742010-08-30T18:21:53.710-07:002010-08-30T18:21:53.710-07:00>I said that I would give you the last word def...>I said that I would give you the last word defending your pagan influenced Trinity, and I am a man of my word ;-)<br /><br /><br />I reply: No wonder you where confused. I was arguing Christology not Trinitarianism. The number of Hypostases who possess the One Divine Nature has little to do with the Incarnation. I supose one could in theory be a Modalist & still hold a Chacedonian Christology. But as I have shown a Chacedonian Christology solves the difficulty of Jesus being both the Omnicient God & being ignorant of the Date of the End of Days.<br /><br />It's still not hard.<br /><br />Now I have the last word.BenYachovhttp://www.catholic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-571660299346592122010-08-29T04:47:16.566-07:002010-08-29T04:47:16.566-07:00Rather it a waste of time for lazy modern Atheists...<i>Rather it a waste of time for lazy modern Atheists to dig in the trash heaps of history for old arguments that have in fact been long ago defeated</i><br /><br />For the record, my worldview is closer to that of English Deism than pure atheism, although I often get painted as a "New Atheist." I said that I would give you the last word defending your pagan influenced Trinity, and I am a man of my word ;-)<br /><br />C,yaWalternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-48708237338984707002010-08-28T21:33:42.606-07:002010-08-28T21:33:42.606-07:00>It is a waste of time to replay centuries of h...>It is a waste of time to replay centuries of historical disputes about Jesus' exact nature, so I will let you have the last word on the subject.<br /><br /><br />I reply: Rather it a waste of time for lazy modern Atheists to dig in the trash heaps of history for old arguments that have in fact been long ago defeated. Jesus did not predict an early coming for himself & his "lack of knowledge" of the precise time of the End of Days is unremarkable & has been explained centuries ago. Neither the Catholics, Eastern Orthodox or the Reformers argued over the matter of Chacedonian Christology. Even in modern times the Coptics, Syrians & Assyrian Oriental Churches have come to substantal agreement in these matters. <br /><br />Like I said it's still not hard.BenYachovhttp://www.catholic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-38482910203834677232010-08-27T17:11:39.787-07:002010-08-27T17:11:39.787-07:00Shackleman said... We Christians do ourselves a di...Shackleman said... We Christians do ourselves a disservice by speaking FOR God as if we know. We don't. <br /><br />We are called to follow. We are called to serve. We are called to witness. We should do those things with a great sense of humility."<br /><br />If Christians know they do not know.Then how can they ever know what it might be they have been called to follow and serve or even witness to?.<br /><br />I think BenYachov is correct.This type of material is becoming more and more extremely ripe material for use in a Monty Python type episode.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-21282127274684674172010-08-27T17:03:17.376-07:002010-08-27T17:03:17.376-07:00"The reason most believers will reject this v..."The reason most believers will reject this viewpoint is that if God changes his mind about things, then he may even change his mind concerning the salvation of the elect. Most Christians don't want to go there."<br /><br />Yes Walter. There was just a little satire intended even if it wasnt conveyed succinctly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-28753903566737995482010-08-27T09:51:51.314-07:002010-08-27T09:51:51.314-07:00All you have done is simply nay say what I have wr...<i>All you have done is simply nay say what I have written nothing more. You have responded with nothing substantial. That is hardly persuasive either.</i><br /><br />The argument of exactly who and what Jesus was has been the cause of bitter disputes among believers that raged for centuries after Jesus' death. Just because you think these matters have been resolved by Catholic Church Councils does not mean that the matter is truly settled. <br /><br />All you have stated is some gobbledy-gook Neoplatonic crap about hypostatic unions which says a mouthful but explains nothing. You then referred me to some obscure book written by a Catholic theologian instead of giving your own viewpoint and attempting to explain how Jesus can be completely human with limited, fallible knowledge, while at the same time Jesus has some kind of divine knowledge that he apparently could only access on special occasions, I guess?<br /><br />It is a waste of time to replay centuries of historical disputes about Jesus' exact nature, so I will let you have the last word on the subject.<br /><br />Peace.Walternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-70817383150309622572010-08-27T09:10:26.841-07:002010-08-27T09:10:26.841-07:00All you have done is simply nay say what I have wr...All you have done is simply nay say what I have written nothing more. You have responded with nothing substantial. That is hardly persuasive either.<br /><br />It's like the Monty Python Argument sketch only not as funny.<br /><br />Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't. etc... tedious and without John Cleese's delivery.BenYachovhttp://www.catholic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-11611527341907051542010-08-27T07:55:54.908-07:002010-08-27T07:55:54.908-07:00...being a Christian *requires* a sense of humilit......being a Christian *requires* a sense of humility. What man speaks for God? Who dares to claim with authority that God cannot change his mind?<br /><br />We Christians do ourselves a disservice by speaking FOR God as if we know. We don't. <br /><br />We are called to follow. We are called to serve. We are called to witness. We should do those things with a great sense of humility.Shacklemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01190598990748327537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-2972635813535780782010-08-27T07:50:33.145-07:002010-08-27T07:50:33.145-07:00..."The reason most believers will reject thi......<i>"The reason most believers will reject this viewpoint is that if God changes his mind about things, then he may even change his mind concerning the salvation of the elect. "</i><br /><br />I agree with this also...which leads me to my next point...Shacklemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01190598990748327537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-84228993867599118462010-08-27T07:49:53.339-07:002010-08-27T07:49:53.339-07:00"It is amazing how much confident knowledge y...<i>"It is amazing how much confident knowledge you have about things you cannot possibly know. If Jesus were the incarnation of God, then you could not begin to understand how his mind worked."</i><br /><br />I agree with this, Walter. I think it's a very wise point indeed.<br /><br />Which leads me to my next point....Shacklemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01190598990748327537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-39309607847276540052010-08-27T05:34:03.780-07:002010-08-27T05:34:03.780-07:00Maybe God simply changed his mind.And so he wasnt ...<i>Maybe God simply changed his mind.And so he wasnt the same yesterday today and tommorow after all.For he needed acquired knowledge that was only learned over time.And Christ did not come to reveal to us the time of the end times.Which is why he mentioned it.It all makes sense.</i><br /><br />The reason most believers will reject this viewpoint is that if God changes his mind about things, then he may even change his mind concerning the salvation of the elect. Most Christians don't want to go there.Walternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-39423658651838800472010-08-27T05:01:14.422-07:002010-08-27T05:01:14.422-07:00Maybe God simply changed his mind.And so he wasnt ...Maybe God simply changed his mind.And so he wasnt the same yesterday today and tommorow after all.For he needed acquired knowledge that was only learned over time.And Christ did not come to reveal to us the time of the end times.Which is why he mentioned it.It all makes sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-69016642509869713472010-08-27T04:28:17.224-07:002010-08-27T04:28:17.224-07:00That's your response?
Weak.
If you say so, B...<i>That's your response?<br /><br />Weak.</i><br /><br />If you say so, Ben.<br /><br />All you have done is parrot Catholic dogma, which I find very unpersuasive. The Trinity is just an ad hoc rationalization that Christians devised so they could feel that they were not violating the first of the ten commandments.Walternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-88099481358743638042010-08-27T00:25:04.601-07:002010-08-27T00:25:04.601-07:00That's your response?
Weak.That's your response? <br /><br />Weak.BenYachovhttp://www.catholic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-24748821642816418342010-08-26T17:48:05.128-07:002010-08-26T17:48:05.128-07:00Rather Christ had three types of knowledge. Divine...<i> Rather Christ had three types of knowledge. Divine knowledge, Acquired knowledge, and Infused knowledge. Divine knowledge is self-explanatory. Acquired knowledge is the natural knowledge his human intellect learns over time(how to eat, how to speak, etc). Infused knowledge is knowledge his human intellect receives from his Divine Intellect that he is meant to reveal (i.e. his teachings, doctrines about God etc). Christ did not come to reveal to us the time of the End of Days hence that knowledge was not imparted to his human intellect. As God if he had originally willed to tell us then he would have infused that knowledge into his human intellect. Like I said it’s not hard.</i><br /><br />It is amazing how much confident knowledge you have about things you cannot possibly know. If Jesus were the incarnation of God, then you could not begin to understand how his mind worked. I guess that knowledge was infallibly revealed to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church at some point, eh?<br /><br />It is easy to recite Trinitarian creeds, but not so easy to make sense of them.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-12964298229051563652010-08-26T15:55:35.564-07:002010-08-26T15:55:35.564-07:00>His human brain did not know something that hi...>His human brain did not know something that his God mind did? Could he access his God mind any time he wanted to, or was he denied access until after the resurrection?<br /><br />I reply: Rather Christ had three types of knowledge. Divine knowledge, Acquired knowledge, and Infused knowledge. Divine knowledge is self-explanatory. Acquired knowledge is the natural knowledge his human intellect learns over time(how to eat, how to speak, etc). Infused knowledge is knowledge his human intellect receives from his Divine Intellect that he is meant to reveal (i.e. his teachings, doctrines about God etc). Christ did not come to reveal to us the time of the End of Days hence that knowledge was not imparted to his human intellect. As God if he had originally willed to tell us then he would have infused that knowledge into his human intellect. Like I said it’s not hard. <br /><br /><br />>It my be easy to assert beliefs like this, but it makes no rational sense. The concept of the Trinity defies rationality; one either accepts it as a mystery that must be believed to be "orthodox," or one can reject it completely, as I do.<br /><br />I reply: I hold to the classic definition of the Trinity as Three Hypostasis that possess the same single Divine Nature. You no doubt believe something silly like 3 gods in one God or three persons in one person. For those of us who have read Frank Sheed’s THEOLOGY & SANITY the Trinity is not a hard concept either.BenYachovhttp://www.catholic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-59197638736962561362010-08-26T11:46:45.604-07:002010-08-26T11:46:45.604-07:00The incarnation mean Jesus has a fully human &...<i>The incarnation mean Jesus has a fully human & a fully divine nature united in a single divine person. I fail to see how logically the finite human nature of Jesus(specifically his human intellect & memory) couldn't in fact be ignorant of some things even thought his divine nature knows all. Thus logically Jesus can say he knows x & doesn't know x & both are true.<br /><br />This is Chalcedonian Theology 101, it's not hard. Well at least for us Catholics.</i><br /><br />His human brain did not know something that his God mind did? Could he access his God mind any time he wanted to, or was he denied access until after the resurrection? <br /><br />It my be easy to assert beliefs like this, but it makes no rational sense. The concept of the Trinity defies rationality; one either accepts it as a mystery that must be believed to be "orthodox," or one can reject it completely, as I do.Walternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-77036265722629784882010-08-26T10:52:00.801-07:002010-08-26T10:52:00.801-07:00Maybe God simply changed his mind.Maybe God simply changed his mind.Shacklemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01190598990748327537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-15445740723695790962010-08-26T06:49:30.598-07:002010-08-26T06:49:30.598-07:00The incarnation mean Jesus has a fully human &...The incarnation mean Jesus has a fully human & a fully divine nature united in a single divine person. I fail to see how logically the finite human nature of Jesus(specifically his human intellect & memory) couldn't in fact be ignorant of some things even thought his divine nature knows all. Thus logically Jesus can say he knows x & doesn't know x & both are true.<br /><br />This is Chalcedonian Theology 101, it's not hard. Well at least for us Catholics.BenYachovhttp://www.catholic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-22298096524594179592010-08-26T06:43:35.130-07:002010-08-26T06:43:35.130-07:00Actually according to the FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC...Actually according to the FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA by Ludwig Von Ott when Jesus says he doesn't know the "day or the hour" but only the Father knows that can either mean that the knowledge is not present in his human intellect(but it is present in his divine nature) or that it's not knowledge he is free to disclose. <br /><br />This is old hat. The Arian Heretics of the 4th century have been using this verse to try to deny the Divinity of Christ long before Atheists found it. Can't you guys come up with something a little more original?BenYachovhttp://www.catholic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-26936548777751725252010-08-26T03:45:31.239-07:002010-08-26T03:45:31.239-07:00Dear Anon:
I think the best argument against Chri...Dear Anon:<br /><br />I think the best argument against Christianity is the behavior of Christians.<br /><br />Just today I read of Christian support of insane anti-gay legislation in Uganda. Insane as in genocidal. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129422524&sc=fb&cc=fp<br /><br />really. <br /><br />I don't know what you mean by "abuse" but my suspician is that it is grounded in the de-personfication of the "other" be that a muslim, an atheist, a pagan, a gay person, or whatever.<br /><br />Ironically this de-humanization of the other is precisely what Jesus preached against. We don't see it, but its there. Just TALKING to the woman at the well is a bridge and sign of respect. If Jesus was alive today preaching in Franklin Graham's church he would no doubt replace "Samaritan" with "gay"<br />or "muslim" or "atheist"<br /><br />(there were no Richard Dawkins characters wandering about ancient Judea--when Jesus spoke of faith it was TRUST not propositional belief like "God exist")<br /><br />Its moral insanity. But the insanity is not in the gospel, but in us that use is.Gordon Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03223834584232283601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-15768838412032976282010-08-25T19:33:15.713-07:002010-08-25T19:33:15.713-07:00Hi Gordon Knight ,good day to you.
I just wanted ...Hi Gordon Knight ,good day to you.<br /><br />I just wanted to explain.Personally i dont at all think of Jesus as simply being some terrible blatant liar.Infact i still very much like much that i have heard about the man.Thats the truth.<br /><br />I understand people do make honest mistakes and can even feel they are receiving divine messages and guidence etc.<br /><br />This is why i also feel no hate toward my own family who still belong to an abusive Christian cult, that is publically well known to have even caused very many people much sorrow, pain and hurt.And even caused a number of suicides.<br /><br />I realize they honestly mean well.I realize they honestly feel they are doing the right thing.<br /><br />Hope this helps you understand where i stand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-11633170193829740052010-08-25T19:05:20.442-07:002010-08-25T19:05:20.442-07:00Anonymous said... Looks to me like there is an EQU...Anonymous said... Looks to me like there is an EQUIVOCATION going on here.<br /><br />In someone gives an opinion, but says they don't know, then they are not acting as a Prophet.<br /><br />Hence, they are not a false prophet.<br /><br />And lot of anti theists here are letting their hate for Jesus distort everything they say about him.<br /><br />After all, that is what the mockers who crucified them, heaped lots of abuse and ridicule on him."<br /><br />Hi Anon.<br /><br />Benny Hinn should learn this.Throw in ideas here and there, that he is not able to know certain things.<br /><br />And Benny could also be just like a modern day Jesus.Prophet one moment ,not the next.<br /><br />And dooms day priests could all have a ball.<br /><br />They could say this is my opinion the world will end in 6 months, give me your money so i can divide it among the poor.<br /><br />But when it didnt come to pass, simply claim well look here, we prophets dont know all the father knows, all the time.<br /><br />What a great lark :)<br /><br />Anon its got little to do with hate.And everything to do with thinking about matters,and trying to learn to not be like a human sheep.<br /><br />But you can feel i hate Jesus, if it simply makes you feel better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com