tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post5294530646128988238..comments2024-03-28T08:58:27.412-07:00Comments on dangerous idea: Would you give up the rule of law to end abortion?Victor Repperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10962948073162156902noreply@blogger.comBlogger140125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-29331929438007071772019-12-19T07:51:31.717-07:002019-12-19T07:51:31.717-07:00Don't forget misogyny.Don't forget misogyny.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-32323425054642341772019-12-19T06:27:48.324-07:002019-12-19T06:27:48.324-07:00Blogger bmiller said...
This is a fairly recent ar...Blogger bmiller said...<br /><i>This is a fairly recent article:</i><br /><br />Yep. Notice it's conclusion is that we aren't sure how many lives will be saved, but it doesn't question that lives will be saved.<br /><br /><i>So I think it's OK to ask questions.</i><br /><br />Nothing wrong with JAQing off, except when you do so in a manner that makes life more dangerous for other people. Lots of anti-vaxxers pretending they are JAQing off, when they are really trying to cast doubt on high-effectiveness, very-low-risk interventions.<br /><br />So, let's circle though all your questions (since you're JAQing off) one more time.<br /><br /><i>Do you old guys understand the vaccination schedule you had as a child versus now? Or even the schedule in the US versus Europe?<br /><br />It's a good argument to live in Europe!</i><br /><br />These questions seem more rhetorical than interrogative. The US vaccine schedule is a mark in favor of the US.<br /><br /><i> It is possible to over-vaccinate isn't it?</i><br /><br />Again, in context this seemed rhetorical, but the answer is no. If you gave every seingl available vaccine at the same time, the number of pathogens would be dwarfed by sending a kid outside to play at a playground.<br /><br /><i>For instance, what exactly should we be looking at to determine the risk of getting the flu with and without getting a flu shot?</i><br /><br />Again, rhetorical, since you offered an article to explain that, one which made it clear the the risk-reward benefit was massively in favor of getting the flu shot, but you that you managed to misinterpret.<br /><br />So, your not actually asking questions, your spreading propaganda that causes people to make decisions which result in other people's death. This makes you morally culpable in those deaths.<br /><br />One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-91666090375634616332019-12-18T14:15:04.294-07:002019-12-18T14:15:04.294-07:00This is a fairly recent article:
Contentious flu ...This is a fairly recent article:<br /><br /><a href="https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/27/flu-vaccine-health-care-workers/" rel="nofollow">Contentious flu vaccine policies at hospitals are based on flawed research, study says</a><br /><br />So I'd say there is still a debate going on regarding health care workers and flu shots.<br /><br />Here's a quote from the article that was news to me. I didn't realize that this was an accepted assumption as late as 2000:<br /><br /><i>Around the turn of the century, studies assessing the impact of vaccination used to routinely estimate that flu shots cut deaths among the elderly during flu season by a whopping 50 percent.<br /><br />Not flu deaths. All deaths.<br /><br />It was dogma for a long while. In fact, it was so entrenched that even questioning how preventing influenza could reduce deaths due to other causes was considered heretical. Dr. Lisa Jackson, a senior investigator in immunization studies at Seattle’s Group Health Research Institute, was one of the leading heretics.</i><br /><br />So I think it's OK to ask questions.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-75167256491684556972019-12-18T13:24:19.162-07:002019-12-18T13:24:19.162-07:00No problem. I wouldn't have shared if it was ...No problem. I wouldn't have shared if it was off limits.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-27344752772774270312019-12-18T10:12:57.968-07:002019-12-18T10:12:57.968-07:00Legion of Logic,
I am sorry to hear about your si...Legion of Logic,<br /><br />I am sorry to hear about your situation. I don't want to make things worse for you. If you ask me to shut up about this, I will.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-66049476312079382142019-12-18T10:12:45.749-07:002019-12-18T10:12:45.749-07:00bmiller,
There is not a serious debate in healthc...bmiller,<br /><br />There is not a serious debate in healthcare about flu immunizations. focusforhealth.org is a quack site. It's discussing treating autims with CBD oil, linking it to gut bacteria, and saying immunity to "wild measles" are better than immunity from vaccination, and confuses elemental mercury with thimerosal. This is all nonsense, and it is nonsense that kills.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-24969040384570510802019-12-18T09:56:02.753-07:002019-12-18T09:56:02.753-07:00Oh well. Guess my 'correction' made it wo...Oh well. Guess my 'correction' made it worse. Nevermind.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-43039766660486875872019-12-18T09:54:18.945-07:002019-12-18T09:54:18.945-07:00"are not being entirely unreasonable."
..."are <b>not</b> being entirely unreasonable."<br /><br />fingers not working today.<br /><br />bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-75501872307400611412019-12-18T08:43:07.483-07:002019-12-18T08:43:07.483-07:00If the flu were not contagious, perhaps. If you ge...<b>If the flu were not contagious, perhaps. If you get the flu after refusing the vaccine, and pass it on to someone more vulnerable who dies from it, are you not morally culpable for that death?</b><br /><br />One would be morally culpable if one knew the certainty of the consequences of his decision and proceeded anyway. A less than 10% difference according to a couple studies doesn't sound very certain.<br /><br />So I don't think Legion was responsible for his grandmother's death because he didn't get a flu shot. Even if he got a flu shot he could still have contracted the flu. Now people with a contagious disease should take the proper precautions to avoid passing it on, but again, I don't think Legion and his family intended any harm. <br /><br />There's a debate going on in the healthcare field regarding the ethics of whether to force employees to get a flu shot or not. <a href="https://www.focusforhealth.org/healthcare-workers-mandates-and-exemptions-for-the-flu-shot/" rel="nofollow">Here.</a><br /><br />There are alternatives to getting a flu shot. Staying home from work when you're sick or wearing a mask are 2 of them.<br /><br />FYI, I'm not a strong advocate of refusing flu shots but I don't think those that choose to do it are being entirely unreasonable.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-30579066567952466942019-12-18T07:32:11.993-07:002019-12-18T07:32:11.993-07:00If you get the flu after refusing the vaccine, and...<i>If you get the flu after refusing the vaccine, and pass it on to someone more vulnerable who dies from it, are you not morally culpable for that death?</i><br /><br />I think this is what it ultimately boils down to. To use another personal story, my grandmother was killed by the flu in the 2017 season. She never drove and never left her house, and only family visited her. Pretty much everyone in our family had already had the flu, and one or more of us gave it to her. We should have skipped Christmas that year rather than run the risk, but we simply didn't think about it. It's easy to not think about where our germs wind up, and how not everyone can shrug it off if they do get it.<br /><br />Now granted that was an extremely rough flu season, and the vaccine was not very successful that year, so it's not a black and white case. But had we all gotten vaccines, it's possible she might still be alive at the ripe ol' age of 91.<br /><br />The more people who are vaccinated, the fewer people will die from preventable disease. It's that simple.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-31811001686454954262019-12-18T06:05:27.002-07:002019-12-18T06:05:27.002-07:00bmiller, there have been 2.7 billion flu shots sin...bmiller, there have been 2.7 billion flu shots since the 1989-90 season in the US. So, we are discussing under 0.00015% of cases that received compensation. That's almost no risk.<br /><br /><i>I think people should get a flu shot if they want to and not worry about those that don't want to get the shot.</i><br /><br />If the flu were not contagious, perhaps. If you get the flu after refusing the vaccine, and pass it on to someone more vulnerable who dies from it, are you not morally culpable for that death?One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-63778886407730182142019-12-17T20:47:07.514-07:002019-12-17T20:47:07.514-07:00Out of 5840 cases filed alleging injury or death d...Out of 5840 cases filed alleging injury or death due to the flu vaccine since 1988, 3287 were compensated and 533 denied. <a href="https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compensation/data/data-statistics-vicp.pdf" rel="nofollow">On page 5.</a><br /><br />So flu vaccines are not risk free, and infants have not been getting flu vacciniations for 20 years (obviously), not to mention that most cases of the flu are only unpleasant, not fatal.<br /><br />Some people get sore for a couple of days after a flu shot (like a relative of mine), so would rather not get the shot. I can't blame them for the small possible benefit that it may provide. The shot doesn't bother me. I get it some years and other years not. Either way I usually get flu-ike symptoms about the same time each year that I think are related to allergies.<br /><br />I think people should get a flu shot if they want to and not worry about those that don't want to get the shot.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-71497810259608607332019-12-17T19:33:20.634-07:002019-12-17T19:33:20.634-07:00bmiller,
From your article:
There’s a big differe...bmiller,<br /><br />From your article:<br /><i>There’s a big difference that jumps out at you! The largest bar on the graph is the one that represents zero cases of the flu in 20 years when you get flu shots. When you’re vaccinated annually, you have a 68% chance of not catching the flu within 20 years! Conversely, if you don’t get flu shots, you have only a 23% of escaping the flu entirely.</i><br /><br />That's a sizable benefit.<br /><br />You mention a benefit-to-risk ratio, but left out the risk. With almost no risk, the benefit to risk ratio is very large.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-91061124228257816212019-12-17T14:05:08.390-07:002019-12-17T14:05:08.390-07:00Part of the problem of trying to figure out the be...Part of the problem of trying to figure out the benefit to risk ratio of vaccines is that it has become such a polarized topic and that has muddied the waters. <br /><br />For instance, what exactly should we be looking at to determine the risk of getting the flu with and without getting a flu shot?<br /><br />A flu shot can sound like it's very effective or only slightly effective <a href="https://statisticsbyjim.com/hypothesis-testing/flu-shots-effectiveness/" rel="nofollow">depending on what statistic you look at.</a><br /><br />What's interesting about the polarization however is that it doesn't necessarily fall along the normal US political divide. Lots of liberals are anti-vax and lots of conservatives are pro-vax.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-28565477605003650012019-12-17T09:42:38.438-07:002019-12-17T09:42:38.438-07:00bmiller said...
If you can't think of any reas...bmiller said...<br /><i>If you can't think of any reasons, then I can't help you.</i><br /><br />I was not aware I needed help; my explanation works for me. If you feel you have some non-misogynistic reasoning, I'm listening.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-1897933943861955732019-12-17T09:41:16.068-07:002019-12-17T09:41:16.068-07:00bmiller said...
Polio and smallpox were horribly d...bmiller said...<br /><i>Polio and smallpox were horribly devastating diseases. The flu not so much.</i><br /><br />The flu <a href="https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html" rel="nofollow">kills tens of thousands</a> of people every year. Vaccination protects not only the patient, but every person whom the patients contacts that is too young to vaccinate, too old to get the best protection, immune-compromised, etc.<br /><br /><i>I know this is from a biased source but it shows how vaccination schedules have increased over time. It is possible to over-vaccinate isn't it?</i><br /><br />The typical life of a child exposes them to thousands of pathogens daily. Adding a few more, specifically weakened or dead, has effectively zero impact on the level of immune activity at that time, and immense effectively in protection from the most dangerous infections.<br /><br />Vaccination is one of those topics I care immensely about. I will probably be less polite than usual when discussing it.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-20521400988971566572019-12-17T09:41:00.742-07:002019-12-17T09:41:00.742-07:00How else should I explain that difference?
If you...<b>How else should I explain that difference?</b><br /><br />If you can't think of any reasons, then I can't help you.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-43240325594080377162019-12-17T09:33:54.310-07:002019-12-17T09:33:54.310-07:00bmiller said...
The 1986 law ,upheld by the Suprem...bmiller said...<br /><i>The 1986 law ,upheld by the Supreme Court, "spares the drug companies the costs of defending against parents' lawsuits."</i><br /><br />It does, by making it easier for parents to sue, and settling specific compensation amounts. Parents get paid sooner, and have a lot less trouble getting paid. It works for everyone.<br /><br /><i>Vaccinations are not mandatory in all EU countries.</i><br /><br />Technically, vaccinations are not mandatory here, either. It's the school systems that require them. You can keep you kids unvaccinated by home-schooling or private schools.<br /><br />That said, should we allow our kids to die because some EU countries allow theirs to die?<br /><br /><i>I put forward some of the arguments of the anti vaccination movement and you conclude that I'm a misogynist.</i><br /><br />You have a firm stance against (those you consider to be) children dying when they are invading a woman's body. You seem to be saying you have no problem with children dying because their parents are uninformed or foolish. How else should I explain that difference?One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-90221200389009994102019-12-17T09:22:48.691-07:002019-12-17T09:22:48.691-07:00Legion of Logic said...
My son has autism. After h...Legion of Logic said...<br /><i>My son has autism. After his diagnosis a friend of mine, who also has a son with autism, gave me Jenny McCarthy's book regarding her son developing autism and blaming it on vaccines. This introduced me to the anti-vax position, and it led to some fairly heated discussions since I didn't agree with her.<br /><br />One of the more interesting topics in those discussions was the fact that I had no need to know the statistics for alleged correlation between vaccines and autism, or any other problem. What I do know is that I would rather my child be on the spectrum than have polio, or smallpox, or hepatitis, or these other diseases that kill.</i><br /><br />I've got 3 of my 5 kids on the spectrum, and I agree completely.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-34371407380325605062019-12-17T08:41:03.992-07:002019-12-17T08:41:03.992-07:00Legion,
I haven't read the book so I don'...Legion,<br /><br />I haven't read the book so I don't know what her positions are.<br /><br />Polio and smallpox were horribly devastating diseases. The flu not so much.<br /><br /><b>Now, of course I would be open to arguments as to whether a particular schedule of vaccination can be shown to have lower risks while maintaining equal effectiveness against the diseases.</b><br /><br />I know <a href="https://vactruth.com/history-of-vaccine-schedule/" rel="nofollow">this</a> is from a biased source but it shows how vaccination schedules have increased over time. It is possible to over-vaccinate isn't it?bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-23982007839599023982019-12-17T08:06:07.111-07:002019-12-17T08:06:07.111-07:00The 1986 law ,upheld by the Supreme Court, "s...The 1986 law <a href="https://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-court-vaccine-ruling-parents-cant-sue-drug-makers-for-kids-health-problems/" rel="nofollow">,upheld by the Supreme Court,</a> "spares the drug companies the costs of defending against parents' lawsuits."<br /><br /><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6001041/" rel="nofollow">Vaccinations are not mandatory in all EU countries.</a><br /><br />One Brow:<br /><b>If you keep doing so, I will never again think of your position against abortion as motivated by anything other misogyny. </b><br /><br />If you ever wonder why I rarely respond to your posts, this is a good example. <br /><br />I put forward some of the arguments of the anti vaccination movement and you conclude that I'm a misogynist.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-50548398815823643352019-12-17T07:57:07.805-07:002019-12-17T07:57:07.805-07:00My son has autism. After his diagnosis a friend o...My son has autism. After his diagnosis a friend of mine, who also has a son with autism, gave me Jenny McCarthy's book regarding her son developing autism and blaming it on vaccines. This introduced me to the anti-vax position, and it led to some fairly heated discussions since I didn't agree with her.<br /><br />One of the more interesting topics in those discussions was the fact that I had no need to know the statistics for alleged correlation between vaccines and autism, or any other problem. What I do know is that I would rather my child be on the spectrum than have polio, or smallpox, or hepatitis, or these other diseases that kill. I do know that with the advent of mass vaccination, many of these diseases went virtually extinct, and that recent increases are due to the anti-vax movement. So even if there was a known and direct correlation between a particular vaccine and a risk of developing autism, it is quite likely that I would consider that risk worth the cost of saving thousands of lives.<br /><br />Now, of course I would be open to arguments as to whether a particular schedule of vaccination can be shown to have lower risks while maintaining equal effectiveness against the diseases. But I have yet to be shown compelling data that vaccines in the United States are harmful on a large scale.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-67551631174141004932019-12-17T06:28:31.107-07:002019-12-17T06:28:31.107-07:00bmiller said...
It's better to spread the vacc...bmiller said...<br /><i>It's better to spread the vaccines out over time rather than all at once.</i><br /><br />This is a lie. There is no reason to spread out the vaccine schedule, and every reason to immunize people as soon as they are ready.<br /><br /><i>The number of vaccines went up just after a law was passed disallowing the suing of vaccine companies for injuries due to vaccines.</i><br /><br />This is another lie. 1) There is a first stop, the National Vaccine Injury Court, especially for vacine injuries. 2) There is a lesser burden of proof on the plaintiff (that is, parents of vaccinated children) in the NVIC than there would be in a more traditional court. 3) If the plaintiff is not happy with the NVIC, they can still go on to sue in the regular courts.<br /><br />You are spreading lies that result in children dying. If you keep doing so, I will never again think of your position against abortion as motivated by anything other misogyny. People worried about protecting life support vaccination.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-43849532843996154372019-12-17T06:23:23.031-07:002019-12-17T06:23:23.031-07:00Blogger bmiller said...
US government forced vacci...Blogger bmiller said...<br /><i>US government forced vaccination schedules are out of control. They are a capitulation to Big Pharma.</i><br /><br />Most vaccines are out of the patent range. They are not a big profit center for pharmaceuticals, unlike (for example) opioids.<br /><br /><i>Not only do they fill the pocket of Big Pharma, but they actually harm children.</i><br /><br />That's just a lie spread by a few crazy people who know better, and lot's of parents who don't.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-28169329515191168632019-12-17T05:32:40.069-07:002019-12-17T05:32:40.069-07:00France has a better schedule, but Japan is better....<a href="https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h5966/infographic" rel="nofollow">France has a better schedule,</a> but Japan is better. It's better to spread the vaccines out over time rather than all at once.<br /><br />The number of vaccines went up just after a law was passed disallowing the suing of vaccine companies for injuries due to vaccines.bmillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05855545675821692382noreply@blogger.com