We must consider investment in addition to consumption.
In order for our money to do the most good, we should make sure everyone has the basic necessities, and then we should invest what is left, in order to build up more resources for the future.
What is socialism? These days it's a meaningless word, unless you define it carefully for the present discussion.
Does socialism mean making sure everyone has the basic necessities? Maybe that's it. Does socialism mean raising taxes on rich people and corporations in order to make sure everyone else gets the basic necessities? Yeah, maybe that's it too. Maybe that's all socialism means.
Oh sure, if we raise taxes too high, that will tend to dampen the investment fervor. So we shouldn't raise taxes too high.
And sure, the government might be inefficient in the way it provides basic necessities for poor people. So we should work hard to improve the efficiency.
What we shouldn't do is stop trying.
----
Oh, I know - maybe socialism means the government raises taxes on rich people and corporations in order for the government itself to invest in publicly owned enterprises.
Few people in the West believe in that sort of thing anymore, right? Let's call that communism instead of socialism.
Arizona has a ballot initiative for a constitutional amendment to allow abortion for any reason up until birth, obviously killing a living human being.
Victor.
Can someone honestly calling oneself a Christian vote for this?
If aliens landed on Earth, and were asked to observe rightwing Christians and to try to reverse engineer the message of Christ, they would likely infer that He must have preached the overriding importance of fetuses, guns, and and fear and hatred of the Other.
It's actually up to around 24 weeks, and past that point if a doctor is found who agrees it would have a negative impact on the mother's "mental health" to not kill her offspring. I can find no measurable criteria for what does and doesn't constitute mental health justifications for killing the unborn, so that would appear to be an open ended license to kill all the way up to birth.
I'm not too interested in what blood-thirsty non-Christians think about killing the innocent. That seems to be part of their own peculiar religion. Its the "professing" Christians that are undermining their own religion by supporting the killing of the innocent.
BTW, it looks like there is an incredible amount of money being spent by the pro-abortion side on blatantly false advertising to deceive people to vote for this abomination. Claims that doctors cannot presently treat miscarriage patients and such. How evil.
You're starting to sound like a Nazi insurrectionist. The next thing you'll be telling us they are closing polling places early to discourage people from voting.
>You seem to be saying that Christian's should remain silent and do nothing about evil in the world. Not gonna happen, and the reason it's not gonna happen is because Christians are called to be like Christ.
I'm saying Christians should do something about evil in the world, as prioritized by Christ. Which would be things like giving generously to those in need, being forgiving, not seeking revenge, and treating people with kindness.
I do not recognize the Christ of the Gospels in rightwing Christianity. At all. The opposite, actually.
>Nothing to see there. Not even the appearance of foul play.
I don't know how I missed it, but Ed Feser just recently wrote an excellent post about Trump, explicating his philosophy of life from his own books. It's worth a read, but in brief:
What Trump is motivated by, as both the interview and indeed his entire public life make manifest, is egotism, and the imperative to “win.” The depressing and indeed ugly consequences of this view of life are spelled out in Think Big and Kick Ass. There he divides the world into “winners” and “losers,” with the aim of the book being to show how to secure a place in the first category
That along with Trump's desire to always get revenge for perceived slights, Feser labels Trump's philosophy as a Hobbesian view of life.
All of this is what motivates Trump to declare victory even when he loses, such as in elections. What's strange to me is how so many of his followers go down this never-admit-a-loss path with him, when it's so OBVIOUS what he's doing.
"Oh, if Trump loses, it's because it was rigged. Trump NEVER loses. EVER. Because he's a winner, not a loser."
There has to be some kind of name for this kind of "contagious narcissism."
There were supposed to be blockquotes around the exerpt from Feser's post above, starging with "What Trump is motivated by" and ending with "the first category."
Martin I do not recognize the Christ of the Gospels in rightwing Christianity. At all. The opposite, actually.
That's a very broad generalization. Maybe you have a particular group in mind that has colored your perception of Christianity. As for me, I don't know any of these people. I'm rightwing and I'm not in the group you are describing, nor are the Christians that I go to church with and surround myself with. Tell the aliens to look me up when they arrive on Earth. I'll show 'em around.
Martin, I'm saying Christians should do something about evil in the world, as prioritized by Christ.
Support/defend innocent children - CHECK Support/defend legal rights of citizens - CHECK Support/defend Gods purpose for humanity - CHECK
I'm not seeing an inherent problem with our priorities. Maybe you don't like the way the supporting/defending is being carried out by some people. Okay, fine, but what do you expect people to do when tensions rise and tempers flare up? What are the leftwing groups doing to diffuse the situation - or is all the responsibility on us Christians?
Since you chose to approvingly quote Feser, you should also know the main reason he is criticizing Trump is because of his view on abortion. The same view that you hold. It is transparently cynical for you to praise Feser's criticism of Trump's abortion position while you hold it yourself.
If you agree with Feser's philosophy, then you have no excuse for not knowing that a new substantial human being is present immediately after sperm and egg unite at the moment of conception. Killing that new person is murder.
I do not recognize the Christ of the Gospels in rightwing Christianity. At all. The opposite, actually.
I'm curious what your actual exposure to "rightwing Christianity" is. I ask because I've lived in a bastion of "rightwing Christianity" my entire life, and given that my community is a popular retirement destination, I've lost count of the number of times people from Illinois, New York, California, etc have moved here and commented that the local Christians are the exact opposite of how you are implying - a vast improvement over the leftwing Christians they left behind. Those are often depicted as hateful and barely resembling Christianity.
Of course, you might be my next door neighbor for all I know, in which case your perception of rightwing Christians might be colored by your personal political prism. Or you might have been exposed to a group that claims God and Country but really only cared about Country. Either way, "rightwing Christianity" broadly construed is not how you describe it.
Myself, i am horrified at my options this election, particularly because it looks to me as if it will only continue to get worse. Regardless, whether I find someone is acting "Christ-like" is not dependent on their left or right affiliation.
Now, when women with problematic pregnancies bleed out in the ER because no one will touch them, it doesn't matter because the fetus is more precious than any living human! ALLAHU AKB...I mean....GOD IS GREAT!
And when classrooms full of elementary school kids get mowed down, it's fine because stopping crazy people from getting hands on rapid-fire weapons violates their 2nd amendment rights! AL....sorry...GOD IS GREAT!!
When women with bad pregnancies continue to bleed out in the ER because doctors are terrified of touching them: I do not see Christ. I see the opposite of Christ.
When little kids get mowed down in elementary schools because making it harder for crazy people to get their hands on rapid-fire weapons violates their 2nd amendment rights: I do not see Christ. I see the opposite of Christ.
What I see is an ISIS-like cult that worships death.
In a way, this is good. I told my wife no matter what happens after today, I am absolutely unplugging 100% from news and politics to focus on hobbies. Like chess. And philosophy!
And I want no part of it. You get to shape the culture as much as anyone else does. There are a lot of things I don't like about it and I do what I can when I have the opportunity. That's all we can do - and after we do that we trust that God will do his part. Yes, God is good even when things don't look so good. That is my firm conviction.
It's a good idea to unplug from the news sources that constantly lie to you and make you believe things that aren't true. We should all spend more time exercising, in nature and praying.
I could call leftwing Christianity a death cult and I wouldn't be entirely wrong considering it places such a high value on having the legal right to kill innocent babies for the sake of convenience - but what would that name-calling accomplish other than it would serve to divide the church?
Instead I will preach the truth that innocent children should be legally protected, and hope it grabs hold of them and changes them.
What truth do you wish to tell rightwing Christians, Martin, so that it changes us to your viewpoint that people must have the legal right to kill innocent babies for the sake of convenience?
First, and least importantly, a fetus can be frozen for decades and then revived. A baby frozen for decades is dead. Hence, a fetus is not a baby.
Secondly, and much more importantly, where abortion is outlawed hospitals become legally terrified of touching any woman with a problematic pregnancy, so you get situations like this one. In Catholic Ireland, where abortion was strictly illegal for a long time, it finally became somewhat acceptable after a woman suffered a similar fate. Even if stopping a problematic pregnancy is technically allowable, hospital legal departments don't want anything to do with them and make a wide berth, so women bleed out in the ER with no one helping them.
It's a human being. Fetus, baby, child, adult, etc are stages of human development. I accept this truth that you preach, but it doesn't change the truth that innocent human beings should have legal protections.
Regarding your second and more important point, it seems to me that the problem that needs to be figured out is how to best implement the legal protections so that doctors aren't terrified and innocent human beings are protected. Yes?
The article says her miscarriage was misdiagnosed until it was too late. The lie is that she died because of the Texas law.
Here is the relevant section of that law dealing with exceptions:
Sec. 170A.002. PROHIBITED ABORTION; EXCEPTIONS. (a) A person may not knowingly perform, induce, or attempt an abortion.
(b) The prohibition under Subsection (a) does not apply if:
(1) the person performing, inducing, or attempting the abortion is a licensed physician;
(2) in the exercise of reasonable medical judgment, the pregnant female on whom the abortion is performed, induced, or attempted has a life-threatening physical condition aggravated by, caused by, or arising from a pregnancy that places the female at risk of death or poses a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function unless the abortion is performed or induced; and
(3) the person performs, induces, or attempts the abortion in a manner that, in the exercise of reasonable medical judgment, provides the best opportunity for the unborn child to survive unless, in the reasonable medical judgment, that manner would create:
(A) a greater risk of the pregnant female's death; or
(B) a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant female.
(c) A physician may not take an action authorized under Subsection (b) if, at the time the abortion was performed, induced, or attempted, the person knew the risk of death or a substantial impairment of a major bodily function described by Subsection (b)(2) arose from a claim or diagnosis that the female would engage in conduct that might result in the female's death or in substantial impairment of a major bodily function.
(d) Medical treatment provided to the pregnant female by a licensed physician that results in the accidental or unintentional injury or death of the unborn child does not constitute a violation of this section.
Regarding your news story, I don't think the abortion law had much to do with a series of doctors medical decisions.
I says "doctor said that Crain had strep and a urinary tract infection, wrote up a prescription and discharged her." and then "She would either have to get sick enough for doctors to intervene, or miscarry on her own." Those are medical assessment and decisions - perhaps the wrong ones, but medical ones nonetheless. I don't see that the doctors were terrified about breaking a law.
"You're not sick enough for us to treat you" isn't a legal issue, it's a medical issue. Go to the hospital and ask them to treat you for a problem you don't have and see what they say.
From the article: "Miscarriage treatment is NOT an abortion. That’s written directly in Texas law" When someone misunderstands the law or when a company misinforms and trains their people according to their misunderstanding, it's not the law that is the problem.
My last comment was inspired by Martin's comment: "Even if stopping a problematic pregnancy is technically allowable, hospital legal departments don't want anything to do with them and make a wide berth, so women bleed out in the ER with no one helping them."
Rightwing Christian's aren't the problem here and neither are the laws.
Ok, fair enough. If the doctors were wrong in falsely believing they would get in trouble for addressing the issue, then there is a problem that needs to be solved. This isn't an isolated case, however.
In the Nevaeh Crain case she was simply not diagnosed correctly until it was too late. So it was not a matter of doctors "falsely believing they would get in trouble for addressing the issue".
The family doesn't blame the Texas law. They blame the 2 hospitals for misdiagnosing:
The family of the Vidor teen blames the death of their daughter and her unborn baby on what they call "medical negligence" on the part of two Southeast Texas hospitals. ... "I want them to pay for what they did to my daughter. I feel like they murdered my daughter and they just got away with it," said Fails. "Murdered my daughter and my grand baby and just got away with it." ... However, the family says Nevaeh's death is being used for politics when they say hospitals are to blame.
This isn't an isolated case, however.
If you mean the media lying to promote abortion and people blindly believing the stories then you're correct.
It took literally seconds to look up the Texas law exceptions and the linked story plainly says the condition was misdiagnosed until it was too late. It took a couple more minutes to find the story where the parents blame "medical negligence" rather than the Texas law.
I don't trust abortion advocates to tell the truth, and it doesn't take much time or effort to find out why that is.
I'm all for an investigation to find out how consistent 65 million ballots for Dem presidential candidates went to 81 million for only 1 election and then back down. Sounds extraordinarily fishy.
First, and least importantly, a fetus can be frozen for decades and then revived. A baby frozen for decades is dead. Hence, a fetus is not a baby.
I can't physically do the things I did when I was a small child either. That doesn't mean I'm not the same person I was back then. However, I have been the same individual person the entire time.
Boethius: "A person is an individual substance of a rational nature".
In this case, it seems that the description of a particular stage of development of a human being is being mis-categorized as some sort of a different kind of being. As if thinking "2 year-old" are a different species than "10 year-olds".
Now that Arizona has passed a constitutional amendment that allows for abortions at any stage of development I wonder if Victor's church applauded the decision, was outraged or just meh.
Should money go to those who have the least in order to do the most good, per the OP? Well, we can apply the question to abortion. Which countries have the lowest abortion rates, and why?
Looks like the top 10 with the lowest rates are: Algeria 0.4 Albania 1.2 Austria 1.3 Turkey 2.7 Croatia 2.7 Lithuania 4.3 Slovakia 4.4 Serbia 4.8 Italy 4.9 Singapore 5
Algeria has a per capita income of about $5000 while the US is about $80,000, so "not being able to afford a child" shouldn't be a problem for Americans compared to Algerians.
Abortion is illegal in Algeria, except in limited circumstances: Mental health: If the woman's mental or psychological health is at risk Fetal abnormality: If the fetus has a severe disease or malformation that prevents it from developing Life or health: If the woman's life or health is at risk if the pregnancy continues In all cases, the doctor must get the woman's consent and inform her of the situation.
Why are we, a rich "Christian" nation put to shame by Algeria?
We must consider investment in addition to consumption.
ReplyDeleteIn order for our money to do the most good, we should make sure everyone has the basic necessities, and then we should invest what is left, in order to build up more resources for the future.
What is socialism? These days it's a meaningless word, unless you define it carefully for the present discussion.
Does socialism mean making sure everyone has the basic necessities? Maybe that's it. Does socialism mean raising taxes on rich people and corporations in order to make sure everyone else gets the basic necessities? Yeah, maybe that's it too. Maybe that's all socialism means.
Oh sure, if we raise taxes too high, that will tend to dampen the investment fervor. So we shouldn't raise taxes too high.
And sure, the government might be inefficient in the way it provides basic necessities for poor people. So we should work hard to improve the efficiency.
What we shouldn't do is stop trying.
----
Oh, I know - maybe socialism means the government raises taxes on rich people and corporations in order for the government itself to invest in publicly owned enterprises.
Few people in the West believe in that sort of thing anymore, right? Let's call that communism instead of socialism.
In order for our money to do the most good, should it go to those who have the least?
ReplyDeleteSocialist idea?
Would our money do the most good if we gave all of it to penniless drug addicts?
Kamala is gonna "win".
ReplyDeleteSo Jesus is banned at Kamala rallies now? How very liberal.
ReplyDeleteWell. Maybe just proclaiming that Christ is King is prohibited.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.westernjournal.com/students-booted-kamala-harris-rally-saying-jesus-lord-set-record-straight/
Coming to a country near you.
Arizona has a ballot initiative for a constitutional amendment to allow abortion for any reason up until birth, obviously killing a living human being.
ReplyDeleteVictor.
Can someone honestly calling oneself a Christian vote for this?
It looks like the Arizona abortion initiative would allow abortion up to fetal viability, which is about 20 weeks, not "until birth." Source.
ReplyDeleteIf aliens landed on Earth, and were asked to observe rightwing Christians and to try to reverse engineer the message of Christ, they would likely infer that He must have preached the overriding importance of fetuses, guns, and and fear and hatred of the Other.
ReplyDelete"Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
It's actually up to around 24 weeks, and past that point if a doctor is found who agrees it would have a negative impact on the mother's "mental health" to not kill her offspring. I can find no measurable criteria for what does and doesn't constitute mental health justifications for killing the unborn, so that would appear to be an open ended license to kill all the way up to birth.
ReplyDeleteYour Christians are so unlike your Christ
ReplyDeleteLooks to be the same problem on the left wing. Aliens will just need to read the scriptures rather than political platforms.
I'm not too interested in what blood-thirsty non-Christians think about killing the innocent. That seems to be part of their own peculiar religion.
ReplyDeleteIts the "professing" Christians that are undermining their own religion by supporting the killing of the innocent.
BTW, it looks like there is an incredible amount of money being spent by the pro-abortion side on blatantly false advertising to deceive people to vote for this abomination. Claims that doctors cannot presently treat miscarriage patients and such. How evil.
ReplyDeleteI see ABC already showed Harris winning Pennsylvania. ABC, run by a buddy of Harris. Nothing to see there. Not even the appearance of foul play.
ReplyDeleteKevin,
ReplyDeleteYou're starting to sound like a Nazi insurrectionist. The next thing you'll be telling us they are closing polling places early to discourage people from voting.
Is this person a Nazi insurrectionist too?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0mmBrrZLvw
They're everywhere!
I don't care who you are. When Biden calls your supporters garbage and you counter by taking questions in a garbage truck, that's genius level.
ReplyDeleteSomeone removed my comment. Wasn't me.
ReplyDeleteSteveK,
ReplyDelete>You seem to be saying that Christian's should remain silent and do nothing about evil in the world. Not gonna happen, and the reason it's not gonna happen is because Christians are called to be like Christ.
I'm saying Christians should do something about evil in the world, as prioritized by Christ. Which would be things like giving generously to those in need, being forgiving, not seeking revenge, and treating people with kindness.
I do not recognize the Christ of the Gospels in rightwing Christianity. At all. The opposite, actually.
Kevin,
ReplyDelete>Nothing to see there. Not even the appearance of foul play.
I don't know how I missed it, but Ed Feser just recently wrote an excellent post about Trump, explicating his philosophy of life from his own books. It's worth a read, but in brief:
What Trump is motivated by, as both the interview and indeed his entire public life make manifest, is egotism, and the imperative to “win.” The depressing and indeed ugly consequences of this view of life are spelled out in Think Big and Kick Ass. There he divides the world into “winners” and “losers,” with the aim of the book being to show how to secure a place in the first category
That along with Trump's desire to always get revenge for perceived slights, Feser labels Trump's philosophy as a Hobbesian view of life.
All of this is what motivates Trump to declare victory even when he loses, such as in elections. What's strange to me is how so many of his followers go down this never-admit-a-loss path with him, when it's so OBVIOUS what he's doing.
"Oh, if Trump loses, it's because it was rigged. Trump NEVER loses. EVER. Because he's a winner, not a loser."
There has to be some kind of name for this kind of "contagious narcissism."
There were supposed to be blockquotes around the exerpt from Feser's post above, starging with "What Trump is motivated by" and ending with "the first category."
ReplyDelete"I do not recognize the Christ of the Gospels "
ReplyDeleteThere, fixed it for you. If you did recognize Christ, you would not advocate for the murder of innocent human beings.
Martin
ReplyDeleteI do not recognize the Christ of the Gospels in rightwing Christianity. At all. The opposite, actually.
That's a very broad generalization. Maybe you have a particular group in mind that has colored your perception of Christianity. As for me, I don't know any of these people. I'm rightwing and I'm not in the group you are describing, nor are the Christians that I go to church with and surround myself with. Tell the aliens to look me up when they arrive on Earth. I'll show 'em around.
Martin,
ReplyDeleteI'm saying Christians should do something about evil in the world, as prioritized by Christ.
Support/defend innocent children - CHECK
Support/defend legal rights of citizens - CHECK
Support/defend Gods purpose for humanity - CHECK
I'm not seeing an inherent problem with our priorities. Maybe you don't like the way the supporting/defending is being carried out by some people. Okay, fine, but what do you expect people to do when tensions rise and tempers flare up? What are the leftwing groups doing to diffuse the situation - or is all the responsibility on us Christians?
Martin,
ReplyDeleteSince you chose to approvingly quote Feser, you should also know the main reason he is criticizing Trump is because of his view on abortion. The same view that you hold. It is transparently cynical for you to praise Feser's criticism of Trump's abortion position while you hold it yourself.
If you agree with Feser's philosophy, then you have no excuse for not knowing that a new substantial human being is present immediately after sperm and egg unite at the moment of conception. Killing that new person is murder.
"Your Christians are so unlike your Christ'
ReplyDeleteDo the aliens visiting Earth also say this about leftwing Christian's, or is everyone on the left doing the Lord's work?
Perhaps they are doing the work of their lord.
ReplyDeleteI do not recognize the Christ of the Gospels in rightwing Christianity. At all. The opposite, actually.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious what your actual exposure to "rightwing Christianity" is. I ask because I've lived in a bastion of "rightwing Christianity" my entire life, and given that my community is a popular retirement destination, I've lost count of the number of times people from Illinois, New York, California, etc have moved here and commented that the local Christians are the exact opposite of how you are implying - a vast improvement over the leftwing Christians they left behind. Those are often depicted as hateful and barely resembling Christianity.
Of course, you might be my next door neighbor for all I know, in which case your perception of rightwing Christians might be colored by your personal political prism. Or you might have been exposed to a group that claims God and Country but really only cared about Country. Either way, "rightwing Christianity" broadly construed is not how you describe it.
Myself, i am horrified at my options this election, particularly because it looks to me as if it will only continue to get worse. Regardless, whether I find someone is acting "Christ-like" is not dependent on their left or right affiliation.
Check out the commericals at the bottom of the page - LOL. That guy does a great impersonation of Trump.
ReplyDeletehttps://tennesseestar.com/politics/woke-cumulus-media-newschannel-5-refuse-to-air-trump-inspired-ads-for-tennessee-retailer-dt-mccalls/tpappert/2024/10/30/
Those are funny! I guess parodies are prohibited now.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8frZTBeGmGQ
ReplyDeleteNow the jackbooted Dem controlled NY bureaucrats are executing pet squirrels. We need to let Ron Paul run wild once he's in charge!
ReplyDeleteFirst they came for P'nut and I did nothing.
ReplyDeleteDon't let us be the ones to say that. Vote against the overreaching totalitarian Dems!
Today is your last chance to avenge P'nut. Vote for the light rather than the present darkness.
ReplyDeleteI did my part and now God will do his, as he always does.
ReplyDeleteHis will be done.
ReplyDeleteRight?! God is Great!
ReplyDeleteNow, when women with problematic pregnancies bleed out in the ER because no one will touch them, it doesn't matter because the fetus is more precious than any living human! ALLAHU AKB...I mean....GOD IS GREAT!
And when classrooms full of elementary school kids get mowed down, it's fine because stopping crazy people from getting hands on rapid-fire weapons violates their 2nd amendment rights! AL....sorry...GOD IS GREAT!!
ReplyDeleteRightwing Christianity is a death cult.
ReplyDeleteI guess killing the squirrel wasn’t such a good idea
ReplyDeleteMartin- repent and believe so that you can be saved. Nothing else matters more than that.
ReplyDeleteI already believe. And I've already repented.
ReplyDeleteWhen women with bad pregnancies continue to bleed out in the ER because doctors are terrified of touching them: I do not see Christ. I see the opposite of Christ.
When little kids get mowed down in elementary schools because making it harder for crazy people to get their hands on rapid-fire weapons violates their 2nd amendment rights: I do not see Christ. I see the opposite of Christ.
What I see is an ISIS-like cult that worships death.
And I want no part of it.
In a way, this is good. I told my wife no matter what happens after today, I am absolutely unplugging 100% from news and politics to focus on hobbies. Like chess. And philosophy!
ReplyDeleteMaybe now is a good time to read Boethius...?
And I want no part of it.
ReplyDeleteYou get to shape the culture as much as anyone else does. There are a lot of things I don't like about it and I do what I can when I have the opportunity. That's all we can do - and after we do that we trust that God will do his part. Yes, God is good even when things don't look so good. That is my firm conviction.
God is good even when things don't look so good
ReplyDeleteHence, reading "Consolation of Philosophy" is on point right now LOL
It's a good idea to unplug from the news sources that constantly lie to you and make you believe things that aren't true. We should all spend more time exercising, in nature and praying.
ReplyDeleteI could call leftwing Christianity a death cult and I wouldn't be entirely wrong considering it places such a high value on having the legal right to kill innocent babies for the sake of convenience - but what would that name-calling accomplish other than it would serve to divide the church?
ReplyDeleteInstead I will preach the truth that innocent children should be legally protected, and hope it grabs hold of them and changes them.
What truth do you wish to tell rightwing Christians, Martin, so that it changes us to your viewpoint that people must have the legal right to kill innocent babies for the sake of convenience?
>news sources that constantly lie
ReplyDeleteI see. So this is a lie. Never happened.
>kill innocent babies
ReplyDeleteFirst, and least importantly, a fetus can be frozen for decades and then revived. A baby frozen for decades is dead. Hence, a fetus is not a baby.
Secondly, and much more importantly, where abortion is outlawed hospitals become legally terrified of touching any woman with a problematic pregnancy, so you get situations like this one. In Catholic Ireland, where abortion was strictly illegal for a long time, it finally became somewhat acceptable after a woman suffered a similar fate. Even if stopping a problematic pregnancy is technically allowable, hospital legal departments don't want anything to do with them and make a wide berth, so women bleed out in the ER with no one helping them.
Collateral damage?
Hence, a fetus is not a baby.
ReplyDeleteIt's a human being. Fetus, baby, child, adult, etc are stages of human development. I accept this truth that you preach, but it doesn't change the truth that innocent human beings should have legal protections.
Regarding your second and more important point, it seems to me that the problem that needs to be figured out is how to best implement the legal protections so that doctors aren't terrified and innocent human beings are protected. Yes?
I see. So this is a lie. Never happened.
ReplyDeleteThe article says her miscarriage was misdiagnosed until it was too late. The lie is that she died because of the Texas law.
Here is the relevant section of that law dealing with exceptions:
Sec. 170A.002. PROHIBITED ABORTION; EXCEPTIONS. (a) A person may not knowingly perform, induce, or attempt an abortion.
(b) The prohibition under Subsection (a) does not apply if:
(1) the person performing, inducing, or attempting the abortion is a licensed physician;
(2) in the exercise of reasonable medical judgment, the pregnant female on whom the abortion is performed, induced, or attempted has a life-threatening physical condition aggravated by, caused by, or arising from a pregnancy that places the female at risk of death or poses a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function unless the abortion is performed or induced; and
(3) the person performs, induces, or attempts the abortion in a manner that, in the exercise of reasonable medical judgment, provides the best opportunity for the unborn child to survive unless, in the reasonable medical judgment, that manner would create:
(A) a greater risk of the pregnant female's death; or
(B) a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant female.
(c) A physician may not take an action authorized under Subsection (b) if, at the time the abortion was performed, induced, or attempted, the person knew the risk of death or a substantial impairment of a major bodily function described by Subsection (b)(2) arose from a claim or diagnosis that the female would engage in conduct that might result in the female's death or in substantial impairment of a major bodily function.
(d) Medical treatment provided to the pregnant female by a licensed physician that results in the accidental or unintentional injury or death of the unborn child does not constitute a violation of this section.
Stop believing lies.
Regarding your news story, I don't think the abortion law had much to do with a series of doctors medical decisions.
ReplyDeleteI says "doctor said that Crain had strep and a urinary tract infection, wrote up a prescription and discharged her." and then "She would either have to get sick enough for doctors to intervene, or miscarry on her own." Those are medical assessment and decisions - perhaps the wrong ones, but medical ones nonetheless. I don't see that the doctors were terrified about breaking a law.
"You're not sick enough for us to treat you" isn't a legal issue, it's a medical issue. Go to the hospital and ask them to treat you for a problem you don't have and see what they say.
ReplyDeleteWhen the media lies, more innocent people die.
ReplyDeletehttps://texasrighttolife.com/life-of-the-mother-how-media-deception-leads-to-preventable-deaths/
From the article: "Miscarriage treatment is NOT an abortion. That’s written directly in Texas law"
ReplyDeleteWhen someone misunderstands the law or when a company misinforms and trains their people according to their misunderstanding, it's not the law that is the problem.
My last comment was inspired by Martin's comment: "Even if stopping a problematic pregnancy is technically allowable, hospital legal departments don't want anything to do with them and make a wide berth, so women bleed out in the ER with no one helping them."
ReplyDeleteRightwing Christian's aren't the problem here and neither are the laws.
>Nevaeh Crain
ReplyDeleteOk, fair enough. If the doctors were wrong in falsely believing they would get in trouble for addressing the issue, then there is a problem that needs to be solved. This isn't an isolated case, however.
On a different note, Kamala is claiming there was widespread fraud and that she actually won.
ReplyDeleteMartin,
ReplyDeleteIn the Nevaeh Crain case she was simply not diagnosed correctly until it was too late. So it was not a matter of doctors "falsely believing they would get in trouble for addressing the issue".
The family doesn't blame the Texas law. They blame the 2 hospitals for misdiagnosing:
https://fox4beaumont.com/news/family-alleges-medical-negligence-in-death-of-vidor-teen-and-her-unborn-child
The family of the Vidor teen blames the death of their daughter and her unborn baby on what they call "medical negligence" on the part of two Southeast Texas hospitals.
...
"I want them to pay for what they did to my daughter. I feel like they murdered my daughter and they just got away with it," said Fails. "Murdered my daughter and my grand baby and just got away with it."
...
However, the family says Nevaeh's death is being used for politics when they say hospitals are to blame.
This isn't an isolated case, however.
If you mean the media lying to promote abortion and people blindly believing the stories then you're correct.
It took literally seconds to look up the Texas law exceptions and the linked story plainly says the condition was misdiagnosed until it was too late. It took a couple more minutes to find the story where the parents blame "medical negligence" rather than the Texas law.
I don't trust abortion advocates to tell the truth, and it doesn't take much time or effort to find out why that is.
On a different note, Kamala is claiming there was widespread fraud and that she actually won.
ReplyDeleteI heard that too. 20 million Dem votes mysteriously vanished from the 2020 race while Trump's numbers remained the same.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/markets-erupt-dow-futures-1300-dollar-soars-after-historic-trump-three-peat
I'm all for an investigation to find out how consistent 65 million ballots for Dem presidential candidates went to 81 million for only 1 election and then back down. Sounds extraordinarily fishy.
Well, well. Kamala congratulated Hitler? Has she joined the Nazi's now? Is Fascism the fashion?
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing worse than Nazis, so how can all those Dems calling their opposition Nazis put up with this?
First, and least importantly, a fetus can be frozen for decades and then revived. A baby frozen for decades is dead. Hence, a fetus is not a baby.
ReplyDeleteI can't physically do the things I did when I was a small child either. That doesn't mean I'm not the same person I was back then. However, I have been the same individual person the entire time.
Boethius: "A person is an individual substance of a rational nature".
In this case, it seems that the description of a particular stage of development of a human being is being mis-categorized as some sort of a different kind of being. As if thinking "2 year-old" are a different species than "10 year-olds".
ReplyDeleteNow that Arizona has passed a constitutional amendment that allows for abortions at any stage of development I wonder if Victor's church applauded the decision, was outraged or just meh.
ReplyDeleteShould money go to those who have the least in order to do the most good, per the OP? Well, we can apply the question to abortion. Which countries have the lowest abortion rates, and why?
ReplyDeleteLooks like the top 10 with the lowest rates are:
ReplyDeleteAlgeria 0.4
Albania 1.2
Austria 1.3
Turkey 2.7
Croatia 2.7
Lithuania 4.3
Slovakia 4.4
Serbia 4.8
Italy 4.9
Singapore 5
However, if the church one goes to is pro-abortion then the question should be 'which countries have the highest abortion rate?' and why?
ReplyDeleteAlgeria has a per capita income of about $5000 while the US is about $80,000, so "not being able to afford a child" shouldn't be a problem for Americans compared to Algerians.
ReplyDeleteAbortion is illegal in Algeria, except in limited circumstances:
Mental health: If the woman's mental or psychological health is at risk
Fetal abnormality: If the fetus has a severe disease or malformation that prevents it from developing
Life or health: If the woman's life or health is at risk if the pregnancy continues
In all cases, the doctor must get the woman's consent and inform her of the situation.
Why are we, a rich "Christian" nation put to shame by Algeria?
Abortions decreased after the Dobbs decision.
ReplyDeleteGo figure. Make something illegal and people stop doing it.
I'll patiently wait for the apology from those who claimed getting rid of Roe v Wade would increase the number of abortions.