People tend to assume (I used to) that the legal debate about Roe v. Wade parallels the moral arguments about abortion and fetal personhood. We typically think that those who support the decision accept arguments like those of Mary Anne Warren or Judith Jarvis Thomson that abortion is justified, and opponents of the decision advance arguments like those of John Noonan, or Francis Beckwith, or Scott Klusendorf that fetuses are persons and therefore Roe has to be wrong.
Actually, the debate over Roe doesn't turn on that. This is my best reconstruction of it.
1. There is a constitutionally guaranteed right of privacy, of which we can be certain.
2. In the case of abortion, the right of privacy must prevail unless there is a countervailing right of which we can be certain, such as the fetus's right to life. This protects a woman's right to consult with her doctor and decide whether or not to get an abortion. Just as it is a violation of privacy rights to make birth control illegal, it violates privacy right to prohibit abortion, unless a countervailing right can be established.
3. But the fetus's right to life cannot be established. Reasonable persons can disagree as to whether fetuses have a right to life or not. One may, based on one's religion perhaps, believe that they have this right, but this right cannot be demonstrated in the same way that the right of privacy can be demonstrated.
4. Therefore there is a Constitutional right to abortion.
All attempts to oppose Roe that I know of, starting with the Rehnquist dissent when the original case was argued, argue not against 3 but against 1. Scalia in one interview refused to refer to himself as a pro-life justice. All he argued was that the right of privacy on which the decision as based was made an absolute when it should not be, and that therefore abortion should be a matter of democratic choice.
It seems you can accept the Roe argument even if you, in your own viewpoint, believe that fetuses have the right to life and that abortion is always wrong. The question is not whether abortion is justified, the question is whether the fetus's right to life is as evident as a woman's right to privacy.
Is the right to privacy really in doubt? If not, do arguments like the SLED argument meet the requisite burden of proof? It would have to be so strong that it would be irrational to reject it.
See the discussion here.
This is a blog to discuss philosophy, chess, politics, C. S. Lewis, or whatever it is that I'm in the mood to discuss.
Friday, March 30, 2018
Charles Colson's Argument from Watergate
“I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren't true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world-and they couldn't keep a lie for three weeks. You're telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible.”
Wednesday, March 28, 2018
The elder board's dilemma
In a
large church in a major American metropolis, there were two candidates for head
pastor. One was selected for the pastorate. Then, after a year in the
pastorate, it is discovered that the chosen pastor had had an affair with a
porn star 10 years before, but, more than this, just before the final decision,
he paid the star $10,000 for her silence. But the elder board says, “God is a
God of forgiveness. Let’s give him a mulligan, and let him remain the preacher
of the church.”
What
elder board would say a thing like that?
Jeff Lowder on gun violence
Monday, March 26, 2018
The President's First Duty
The President's FIRST duty is to uphold the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States. That comes before nominating pro-life justices, or cutting taxes, or supporting Israel, etc. Unless you have been looking at him through Fox-colored glasses, I think the answer concerning Trump is overwhelmingly NO. It was bad enough that many Christian leaders supported him at election time, but I think I can understand it up to a point. At that time there was the contrast with Hillary. With respect to his extramarital relationships, I think we have the right to ask him to just come clean, and either tell the country that he doesn't think he has a duty to be a faithful husband because he has considers that requirement to be an outdated religiously-based prudish moral rule, or to say that he is deeply repentant for the disrespect for marriage, in word and deed, that he has shown in the past and that he has amended his behavior in the meantime. This is especially true for Christians who look to a Republican President to support traditional marriage and who find same-sex marriage to be a treat to that institution. Don't such Christians have a right to know if the President they are supporting respects the institution of marriage as they understand it? And shouldn't such Christians demand such answers from the President they support?
Someone willing to make a payment of amount a few times my annual salary to keep someone silent is someone who is liable to be blackmailed by a foreign government to keep other improprieties quiet. His ability to put the American people first and uphold the Constitution has to therefore be questioned.
Evangelical leaders are getting up on TV and giving Trump a whole bunch of breaks that they wouldn't give Clinton or any other previous President. Worse yet they focus on the actual affair, when the attempt, in violation of campaign finance laws, to keep someone from talking about the affair is far more serious. And if he has people out making threats of physical violence, this is worse.
I am tired of hearing that the public policy bottom line is all that matters. A President who can't uphold the rule of law, who is so compromised that we can expect nothing but scandal after scandal, is someone who the American people will sooner or later turn against. I liked a lot of John Edwards' public policy proposals. But his character was so compromised that I would be far more comfortable with Mitt Romney in the White House than him. I think those who voted for Trump should have seen the handwriting on the wall when they voted for him back in 2016, but this constant talk of "mulligans" and "we believe in forgiveness" is nauseating and with a lot of people yes, it damages the credibility of Christianity. The Franklin Grahams and Tony Perkinses, not to mention Paula White, who says its a sin to oppose our President since God raises up kings, (How come we didn't hear that when Obama was in office), yes, they do give opponents of Christianity ammunition.
Someone willing to make a payment of amount a few times my annual salary to keep someone silent is someone who is liable to be blackmailed by a foreign government to keep other improprieties quiet. His ability to put the American people first and uphold the Constitution has to therefore be questioned.
Evangelical leaders are getting up on TV and giving Trump a whole bunch of breaks that they wouldn't give Clinton or any other previous President. Worse yet they focus on the actual affair, when the attempt, in violation of campaign finance laws, to keep someone from talking about the affair is far more serious. And if he has people out making threats of physical violence, this is worse.
I am tired of hearing that the public policy bottom line is all that matters. A President who can't uphold the rule of law, who is so compromised that we can expect nothing but scandal after scandal, is someone who the American people will sooner or later turn against. I liked a lot of John Edwards' public policy proposals. But his character was so compromised that I would be far more comfortable with Mitt Romney in the White House than him. I think those who voted for Trump should have seen the handwriting on the wall when they voted for him back in 2016, but this constant talk of "mulligans" and "we believe in forgiveness" is nauseating and with a lot of people yes, it damages the credibility of Christianity. The Franklin Grahams and Tony Perkinses, not to mention Paula White, who says its a sin to oppose our President since God raises up kings, (How come we didn't hear that when Obama was in office), yes, they do give opponents of Christianity ammunition.
Tuesday, March 20, 2018
What might undermine evangelical support for Trump
I suspect we will see a crisis in evangelical support for Trump, if, as I suspect, Stormy Daniels comes out and says that Trump paid for, and encouraged her to get, an abortion. That would make him in the eyes of the pro-life movement, a baby-killer not in the sense of being pro-choice and opposing government efforts to stop abortions, but actually being a contributing cause of an abortion, or even several abortions. Would THIS be a bridge too far?
Monday, March 19, 2018
Wednesday, March 14, 2018
Oppose the weakening of the Americans with Disabilities Act
Let's oppose the weakening of the Americans with Disabilities Act. This is personal for me, as it affects my immediate family. Two family members suffer from rheumatoid arthritis. Not to mention my late mother, who passed away in 1986 four years before the ADA was passed, and who spent many years on canes and crutches due to arthritis.
This explains the information about HR 620, which has already passed the House of Representatives.
This explains the information about HR 620, which has already passed the House of Representatives.
Tuesday, March 13, 2018
Rating ourselves as thinkers
What are the traits of a good thinker? Have you met people who you think are excellent thinkers? Have you read books by people you believe to be excellent thinkers? What makes them great? Then, we might ask, what makes a poor thinker.
Think about drivers for a minute. How many people, do you think, would rate themselves in the bottom half of drivers? What about the guy that cut you off in traffic today, or almost hit you? Do you that person would put himself or herself in the bottom half of drivers? If you think people overrate themselves as drivers, do you think also that people also overrate themselves as thinkers? And if this is so, what questions does that raise when you sit down and try to rate yourself as a thinker?
Sunday, March 11, 2018
Religion is not responsible for most wars- can people stop repeating this nonsense?
Moreover, the chief complaint against religion — that it is history’s prime instigator of intergroup conflict — does not withstand scrutiny. Religious issues motivate only a small minority of recorded wars. The Encyclopedia of Wars surveyed 1,763 violent conflicts across history; only 123 (7 percent) were religious. A BBC-sponsored "God and War" audit, which evaluated major conflicts over 3,500 years and rated them on a 0-to-5 scale for religious motivation (Punic Wars = 0, Crusades = 5), found that more than 60 percent had no religious motivation. Less than 7 percent earned a rating greater than 3. There was little religious motivation for the internecine Russian and Chinese conflicts or the world wars responsible for history’s most lethal century of international bloodshed.
Scott Atran, atheist and anthropologist
Scott Atran, atheist and anthropologist
Tuesday, March 06, 2018
The case for the martyrdom of the apostles
Skeptics often criticize the idea that the apostles were really martyred. Sean McDowell argues that they were.
Thursday, March 01, 2018
Willful ignorance, morality, and the right to our opinion
Is someone who is being willfully ignorant behaving immorally? If so, what happens the our so-called right to our opinion?
Monday, February 26, 2018
Gay marriage, the product of which 60s movement?
Is this the next step in the civil rights
movement, or is it the newest stage of
the sexual revolution. If you say the civil rights movement was a bad thing,
this probably is not socially acceptable. If you say the sexual revolution was
a bad thing, you might be called a prude, but you will get the support of a lot
of people who thought the civil rights movement was a good movement.
Sunday, February 25, 2018
What "gay marriage" does
To be clear, same-sex relationships existed before gay
couples could be married by the government, and they have been doing may
marriage ceremonies since 1969, without getting arrested. What the gay marriage
government initiatives, culminating with the Supreme Court decision on gay
marriage in 2015, has been government recognition of gay marriages, so that,
for example, a same sex couple could check “married filing jointly” on their
tax return and get some tax advantages.
Did gay marriage permit gay people to love who they please? No. What would prevent them from loving who they please
would be sodomy laws, which have been eliminated in most placed and were
unenforced in many cases before they were eliminated. These laws were declared unconstitutional in 2002, 13
years before the Obergfell decision.
Friday, February 23, 2018
Accepting people
Should a person have to accept another person’s love
life in order to accept them as a person? For example, if someone sleeps
around, and I don’t think they ought to be sleeping around, does that mean that
I reject who they are? Many people assume that if a person does not approve of
gay sexual activity, they cannot accept a gay person as a person. But why think
this?
Wednesday, February 21, 2018
Is marriage equality a coherent idea?
Any institution of marriage involves some kind of
inequality. That is, it treats some relationships as fitting objects of religious
affirmation, or government support, or what not, while others are not. It is to
say that certain relationships rise above the level of mere shackups and hookups,
and worthy of some form of community respect. Therefore the term “marriage
equality,” strictly speaking, is an oxymoron. The very idea of marriage, gay or
not, implies that some relationships are marriages and others are not.
Tuesday, February 20, 2018
Why is country of origin relevant to DACA?
This is a question, not a polemic. I really want to know. What is confusing about Trump's "s***hole countries" comment is the fact that this came up in the context of DACA. That is people who entered the country illegally as children, who as adults have either gone to college or joined the military, and who have no criminal record. While one could argue that country of origin might be relevant to overall immigration policy, so that on a merit-based system we might limit entry from countries on the basis of how well they might contribute to our society once they arrived (those from the poorest countries are least likely to be contributors to our society, one might reason), I don't see how in the world this applies to DACA-type cases where innocent illegal immigrants have shown there ability to contribute to America.
I am not here defending or criticizing the "merit-based" viewpoint on immigration. I just fail to see the relevance of these considerations to Dreamers. What these people have done since arriving in our country dwarfs the significance of country of origin in these cases, it seems to me. And if they have done all the since coming from a s***hole, it seems even more meritorious for them to have done what they have done, and extra cruel to send them back there.
Or did I misunderstand Trump?
Friday, February 16, 2018
Wednesday, February 14, 2018
Pre-adolescent indicators of post-adolescent homosexuality? Evidence, anyone?
This is from Focus on the Family.
As a parent, you should be aware that there are certain signs of pre-homosexuality that are fairly easy to recognize. They usually show up early in a child's life, and they generally fall under the heading of what might be called "cross-gender behavior." There are five markers to watch for in determining whether a boy or girl is a likely candidate for "gender identity disorder:"
- A recurring desire to be, or an insistence that he or she is, the opposite sex.
- Penchant for cross-dressing.
- A strong and persistent preference for cross-sexual roles in make-believe play, or persistent fantasies of being the other sex.
- An intense desire to participate in stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex.
- A strong preference for playmates of the opposite sex.
I've never seen any good evidence for this sort of thing. Has anyone?
Monday, February 05, 2018
William H. (Bill) Patterson
Heinlein archivist and biographer. I knew him from our old science fiction club in the Phoenix area from the mid-1970s. He passed away in 2014.
Here.
Here.
Thursday, February 01, 2018
Was Mendel and anti-Darwinist?
According to this paper, he was, although modern evolutionary theory is a synthesis of Mendel and Darwin.
Tuesday, January 30, 2018
Why atheists change their minds
Here.
Of course, for some atheists, the fact that an atheist leaves the atheist fold is proof that they were never real atheists in the first place (the atheist equivalent of Perseverance of the Saints).
Sunday, January 28, 2018
Who's to say?
Actually this depends on your view of moral values.
Some people think that moral values are objectively valid, that is, they hold
regardless of what people say. Thus, if everyone in society says that people
over 65 should be killed, it is still wrong objectively to kill them. Some people
believe this because of a belief in God’s commandments. Others just think, like
atheist philosopher Erik Wielenberg, that moral statements are just objectively
true even without God. Others think that morals are determined by individuals
or cultures. What that means is if a culture decides, for example, that it is
obligatory for young girls to get female genital mutilation, then it is true
for that culture, and no one has the right to say that is wrong. Though,, that’s
not quite accurate, since if morals are relative to culture, and your culture
says you should condemn and be intolerant of other cultures, then you should be
intolerant of other cultures.
We could also ask, who is the state to tell a murderer that he has done
the wrong thing?
Human rights and moral objectivity
It is part of the idea of a human right that it exists
even when it is being violated. If someone is born a slave and dies a slave,
defenders of human rights will say that the slave nonetheless has the right to
liberty. What sense can be made of this idea? The best sense I can make of it
is that there is an objectively binding moral obligation on the part of
everyone to permit this person to be free, and that those who are enslaving him
are violating that. The idea of human rights seems to entail moral objectivity,
and on the view that there are no moral facts, it is hard to see what human
rights could mean.
Sunday, January 21, 2018
Tuesday, January 16, 2018
Belief, unbelief, and the establishment clause
It would be very odd if our government were to make it legal to practice any religion you wanted to, so long as you practiced one, but prohibited you from lacking any religion at all. So, freedom of religion includes freedom from religion. But does freedom from religion involve more that this? If so, what?
Suppose a religious professor at a state college were to make it his goal to get as many students to believe his religion as possible. There seem to be at least some things he could do (for example, making it clear that anyone who wrote a paper in opposition to his religious beliefs would almost certainly get a failing grade), that would give the student grounds for suing based on the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.
Now, suppose an atheist professor were to make it his stated goal to get as many students to become atheists as possible. Are there things he could do that would give a religious student grounds for suing based on the Establishment Clause? Or, since it's nonbelief instead of belief, that's different?
Hamilton and the Electoral College: Independent Electors, or an Alternative Counting System?
It is quite true that, from the point of view of the Constitution which determines how these things go, Trump is legitimately President despite getting less popular votes than Hillary. But if you buy the argument that we are a Republic and not a Democracy, and that is why we have the Electoral College, then you would have to accept Hamilton's justification for the EC, which is that people can't really be expected to vote directly for the President, (since they may be unfamiliar with the candidates, which was often the case in the early days before communication improved), but should instead trust the decision of the President to electors more familiar to them than the candidates whose judgment they could trust. Hamilton described electors in this way:
"...men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice."
But nowadays, we know all about the candidates and nothing about the electors, and the allegiances of the electors is guaranteed by the political parties to which they are affiliated. Although electors occasionally "go rogue," their votes are signed, sealed and delivered to the candidate whose party selected them. The idea of Republic v. Democracy is that we select representatives to vote for President who have an independent voice. But they don't. They are the hacks of political parties.
What the electoral college creates is an alternative counting system which favors citizens of smaller states over citizens of larger states. But that is not the original concept of the Electoral College. Hamilton would not recognize his creation if were to come back today.
Is there any good reason to have an alternative counting system? I have my doubts.
Saturday, January 13, 2018
Cultural Relativism and that Illinois frat house
I was told when I was a grad student at the University of Illinois that there was a fraternity on campus that considered a girl's being on the second floor of the frat house with an alcoholic beverage to constitute consent. Isn't the frat house a culture? And if cultural relativism is true, then wouldn't that make raping a girl who came to the second floor with a drink in her hand morally acceptable?
Thursday, January 11, 2018
Will an ethics class help you be ethical?
A lot of our moral decisions occur when we know what the right thing to do is, and we are trying to find the guts to do it. In this type of situation, an ethics class won't help you. In fact, it might do harm, because it might give you an excuse to come up with rationalized reasons not to do what you know is right. (What if, what if, what if.......)
On the other hand, other issues are hard to decide from a moral point of view. If that is the issue, that is, an issue where moral reasoning is needed, then this course can be helpful. But no class is going to give you moral fortitude.
Abortion and the right of privacy
The fetus has human DNA and the potential to develop into something with all the characteristic of human personhood. Depending on the stage of pregnancy, it lacks certain of the occurrent mental states that humans have. It is a borderline case. On my view it is of considerable value whether we think of it as fully a person or not fully a person. Our cats are not people, but I will get very very angry if you kill one of them. The Supreme Court decided that a woman had a knowable right to privacy with respect to her own reproductive medical decisions, and the fetus's right to life, as best they were able to ascertain, was not knowable. So, for legal purposes, the woman's right to privacy has to take precedence over the fetus's right to life, since we can be sure of the former but not the latter. Even the dissent in Roe, and the subsequent arguments of anti-Roe justices like Scalia, have not attempted to argue that the right of the fetus to life is knowable. Instead, they have tried to argue, and on my view not very plausibly, that the woman's right to privacy isn't really established, but is a product of judicial activism. People who vote Republican (and even vote for a Republican Presidential candidate whose pro-life convictions are highly suspect) in order to get Roe overturned are hoping for justices who will undercut the status of the right of privacy. But I think it's not judicial activism, I think there is a legitimate right of privacy.
Catholic politicians such as Joe Biden believe that, as a matter of revealed truth, we can know that fetuses are persons. However, he agrees with the Supreme Court that the personhood of the fetus isn't knowable by all citizens, and he agrees with the Supreme Court that a woman's right to privacy implies a right to an abortion unless a countervailing right of the fetus to life can be established as knowable by all citizens. Therefore he believes that the current status of the law is correct with respect to abortion even though he also believes, as a Catholic, that fetuses are persons.
Catholic politicians such as Joe Biden believe that, as a matter of revealed truth, we can know that fetuses are persons. However, he agrees with the Supreme Court that the personhood of the fetus isn't knowable by all citizens, and he agrees with the Supreme Court that a woman's right to privacy implies a right to an abortion unless a countervailing right of the fetus to life can be established as knowable by all citizens. Therefore he believes that the current status of the law is correct with respect to abortion even though he also believes, as a Catholic, that fetuses are persons.
Morality and the causal structure of the world
Morality needs to connect with the causal structure of the world. If morality means anything at all, it has to be a reason why we do some of the things we do. "I decided I couldn't cheat on my taxes. It would be wrong." "She was so beautiful, and so seductive, but I remembered my marriage and realized it would be wrong to sleep with her." "I can't keep working at this car dealership. I have to keep lying to customers, and it's just wrong." This is one problem I have with Wielenberg's Robust Ethics, morality is causally inert for him. But it can't be. Yet, at least naturalistic atheism believes in a causally closed world of physical and only physical causes. Morality, even if it exists, doesn't do anything. If you believe in automonous ethics, we need an account of how that realm can have something to do with the actual occurrence of moral conduct. Christian theism has a way of doing that. Naturalism does not.
Tuesday, January 09, 2018
Are the Ethics of Belief Objective?
If all versions of robust ethics without God a la Wielenberg fail, and atheism leads to moral subjectivism, then we could say that if there is no God everything is permitted. That includes racism, sexism, homophobia, and believing in God without a shred of evidence.
There is no Plan B
If you think Christianity is about your physical wellbeing here. If you think Christianity is about your living the American Dream. If you think Christianity is about your having an improved lifestyle here, then you are going to question the truth of Christianity when hardship comes because the Lord doesn’t promise you those things.
Therefore, it is paramount that we have a correct understanding of what Jesus promised and didn’t promise if we are to have confidence in what Jesus is doing to and through us on planet Earth. Jesus promised to be with you through suffering; He didn’t promise that you would avoid it. I tell my classes, “God’s Plan A for your life is to take you through regular periods of suffering and there is no Plan B.” Suffering purifies us and, if we bear it while continuing to honor God, it proves to humans and angels that we really are His disciples. — Clay Jones (from, The Major Reason Christians Doubt)
Tuesday, January 02, 2018
Donald Trump and the baker
President Donald Trump divorces Melania, and becomes engaged to the beautiful Svetlana Putina, the 27-year-old daughter of Vladimir Putin. He contacts Fabulous Cakes and Designs, owned by evangelical Christian baker Jack Graham, who is asked to bake a YUGE cake for a wedding at Trump Tower. Graham refuses, on the grounds citing Matthew 9:19.
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
The infuriated President files a suit with the Civil Rights Commission, claiming discrimination on the basis of marital status.
Reductio? No, the defender of religious freedom can just support the baker, not Trump.
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Besides, the President is a known serial adulterer and p**** grabber, whose disrespect for the institution of marriage is well-known.
The infuriated President files a suit with the Civil Rights Commission, claiming discrimination on the basis of marital status.
Reductio? No, the defender of religious freedom can just support the baker, not Trump.
Monday, January 01, 2018
Andrea vs. Hillary on Female Genital Mutilation: Who is right?
•How
can I argue against a culture I haven't tried to understand? Is it relevant
that I, an outsider, may find [clitorectomies]
cruel? As hard as it is for me to admit, the answer is no. To treat the issue
as a matter of feminist outrage would be to assume that one society, namely
mine, has a privileged position from which to judge the practices of another.—Andrea
Park-1992.
"We
cannot excuse this as a cultural tradition. There are many cultural traditions
that used to exist in many parts of the world that are no longer acceptable. We
cannot excuse it as a private matter because it has very broad public
implications. It has no medical benefits. It is, plain and simply, a human
rights violation,”-Hillary
Clinton, 2012.
Friday, December 29, 2017
A case from Francis Beckwith on refusing service
Suppose a local congregation of Jews for Jesus plans to conduct several adult baptisms at a nearby river and wants to celebrate the event with a catered post-baptismal reception held at the church. They approach restaurant owner, Mr. Saul, an observant Orthodox Jew, and request an estimate for his services. (Mr. Saul’s business is family owned and run; his employees are all close relatives, all of whom are observant Orthodox Jews like Mr. Saul). After he provides the estimate, the congregation’s pastor, Mr. Paul, tells Mr. Saul that the name of his congregation is “Jews for Jesus Community Church” and that the five people to be baptized were raised in Jewish homes and had converted to Evangelical Christianity just two weeks ago. At that point, Mr. Saul says that he cannot cater the event, since he cannot cooperate with a celebration of apostasy from Judaism. Mr. Paul leaves not only disappointed, but feels discriminated against. After all, he reasons, Mr. Saul is an observant Jew and thus denies the religious efficacy of baptism and would likely have no problem catering post-baptismal celebrations held in Christian churches whose primary mission is not to target Jews for evangelization. So, Mr. Paul concludes that Mr. Saul harbors animus against his particular church and that his refusal to provide services to the church violates a local ordinance that forbids discrimination based on religion in public accommodations. Mr. Paul subsequently files a complaint with the local Human Rights Commission. In his reply to the complaint, Mr. Saul argues that he is in fact not discriminating against the congregation based on religion, but rather, he is basing his denial of service on the nature and context of the liturgical event with which he was asked to cooperate and what his own tradition tells him is an act of public apostasy from the Jewish faith. He also argues that he would be more than happy to provide catering to any member of the congregation as long as the service does not involve him with cooperating with apostasy. The Human Rights Commission does not buy it. They rule: “In conclusion, the forum holds that when a law prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion, that law similarly protects conduct that is inextricably tied to religion. Applied to this case, the forum finds that Respondents' refusal to provide catering for a baptismal celebration for Complainants because it was for their Jews for Jesus baptism was synonymous with refusing to provide catering because of Complainants' religion.”
Thursday, December 28, 2017
Naturalistic atheism and the value of truth
One could make this argument:
1) People ought, in areas of religion, to form beliefs in accordance with truth only if there are objectively correct moral values.
2) If naturalism is true, there are no objectively correct moral values.
3) Therefore, if naturalism is true, then we have no moral obligations to form beliefs in accordance with truth.
But this wouldn't be a response to all forms of atheism, only naturalistic ones. An atheism that allowed for the existence of the Form of the Good, or a Law of Karma, or an inherent purpose for human life, could avoid this conclusion without difficulty. But such views are dismissed as so much woo my typical atheists of the present day.
1) People ought, in areas of religion, to form beliefs in accordance with truth only if there are objectively correct moral values.
2) If naturalism is true, there are no objectively correct moral values.
3) Therefore, if naturalism is true, then we have no moral obligations to form beliefs in accordance with truth.
But this wouldn't be a response to all forms of atheism, only naturalistic ones. An atheism that allowed for the existence of the Form of the Good, or a Law of Karma, or an inherent purpose for human life, could avoid this conclusion without difficulty. But such views are dismissed as so much woo my typical atheists of the present day.
Wednesday, December 27, 2017
Thursday, December 21, 2017
Monday, December 18, 2017
Can we reject Ockham's Razor?
Can you just say "to heck with Ockham's Razor? It is interesting in my area of research where atheists insist that rational and nonrational explanations don't exclude one another and both are true, yet physical explanations exclude theological explanations, because of Ockham's Razor. If the mind can be fully explained as the result of physical causes, and we apply Ockham's Razor, it becomes Ockham's Lobotomy, and we are all mindless.
Saturday, December 16, 2017
Roy Moore's Defeat
Does anyone see great irony that Roy Moore lost a safe Republican Senate seat by violating one of the commandments that he so ostentatiously put on his famous courthouse monument?
Tuesday, December 12, 2017
Sunday, December 10, 2017
William Alston's Return to Faith
HT: Steve Hays.
The main bar to faith was rather the Freudian idea that religious faith is a wish fulfillment–more specifically, an attempt to cling to childish modes of relating to the world, with the omnipotent daddy there presiding over everything. A powerful case can be made for the view, which is not necessarily tied to the complete Freudian package, that the most important psychological root of religious belief is the need that everyone has for such a childish relationship with a father figure. Be that as it may, I had been psyched into feeling that I was chickening out, was betraying my adult status, if I sought God in Christ, or sought to relate myself to an ultimate source and disposer of things in any way whatever. The crucial moment in my return to the faith came quite early in that year’s leave, before I had reexposed myself to the church or the Bible, or even thought seriously about the possibility of becoming a Christian. I was walking one afternoon in the country outside Oxford, wrestling with the problem, when I suddenly said to myself, "Why should I allow myself to be cribbed, cabined, and confined by these Freudian ghosts? Why should I be so afraid of not being adult? What am I trying to prove? Whom am I trying to impress?
Whose approval am I trying to secure? What is more important: to struggle to conform my life to the tenets of some highly speculative system of psychology or to recognize and come to terms with my own real needs? Why should I hold back from opening myself to a transcendent dimension of reality, if such there be, just from fear of being branded as childish in some quarters?" (Or words to that effect.) These questions answered themselves as soon as they were squarely posed. I had, by the grace of God, finally found the courage to look the specter in the face and tell him to go away. I had been given the courage to face the human situation, with its radical need for a proper relation to the source of all being. William P. Alston, "A Philosophers Way Back to the Faith." God and the Philosophers: The Reconciliation of Faith and Reason, ed. T.V. Morris (New York: Oxford, 1994).
The main bar to faith was rather the Freudian idea that religious faith is a wish fulfillment–more specifically, an attempt to cling to childish modes of relating to the world, with the omnipotent daddy there presiding over everything. A powerful case can be made for the view, which is not necessarily tied to the complete Freudian package, that the most important psychological root of religious belief is the need that everyone has for such a childish relationship with a father figure. Be that as it may, I had been psyched into feeling that I was chickening out, was betraying my adult status, if I sought God in Christ, or sought to relate myself to an ultimate source and disposer of things in any way whatever. The crucial moment in my return to the faith came quite early in that year’s leave, before I had reexposed myself to the church or the Bible, or even thought seriously about the possibility of becoming a Christian. I was walking one afternoon in the country outside Oxford, wrestling with the problem, when I suddenly said to myself, "Why should I allow myself to be cribbed, cabined, and confined by these Freudian ghosts? Why should I be so afraid of not being adult? What am I trying to prove? Whom am I trying to impress?
Whose approval am I trying to secure? What is more important: to struggle to conform my life to the tenets of some highly speculative system of psychology or to recognize and come to terms with my own real needs? Why should I hold back from opening myself to a transcendent dimension of reality, if such there be, just from fear of being branded as childish in some quarters?" (Or words to that effect.) These questions answered themselves as soon as they were squarely posed. I had, by the grace of God, finally found the courage to look the specter in the face and tell him to go away. I had been given the courage to face the human situation, with its radical need for a proper relation to the source of all being. William P. Alston, "A Philosophers Way Back to the Faith." God and the Philosophers: The Reconciliation of Faith and Reason, ed. T.V. Morris (New York: Oxford, 1994).
Friday, December 08, 2017
Monday, December 04, 2017
Monday, November 27, 2017
Chesterton on arguments against miracles
The
historic case against miracles is also rather simple. It consists of
calling miracles impossible, then saying that no one but a fool believes
impossibilities: then declaring that there is no wise evidence on
behalf of the miraculous. The whole trick is done by means of leaning
alternately on the philosophical and historical objection. If we say
miracles are theoretically possible, they say, “Yes, but there is no
evidence for them.” When we take all the records of the human race and
say, “Here is your evidence,” they say, “But these people were
superstitious, they believed in impossible things."
--G.K. Chesterton
This is essentially the same argument that C.S. Lewis later urged against Hume in MIRACLES to the effect that Hume's famous argument is circular.-Linville
And I thought there were new ways of arguing against miracles.-VR
--G.K. Chesterton
This is essentially the same argument that C.S. Lewis later urged against Hume in MIRACLES to the effect that Hume's famous argument is circular.-Linville
And I thought there were new ways of arguing against miracles.-VR
Saturday, November 25, 2017
Three quotes from Peter Geach's The Virtues
For
medieval thought the gulf that could be bridged only by Divine
intervention came not between life and the inanimate, nor between
consciousness and lack of consciousness, but between rational and
irrational creatures. I think there is no reason now to think otherwise -- only fashion.
....
"Life must originate, we are told, wherever the physical conditions for life are favourable: and there must be so many planets on which life has originated that on millions of them rational beings will have evolved by natural selection. But rational beings cannot so come to be: the coming to be of a rational creature is strictly miraculous -- it exceeds all the powers of sub-rational nature.
When we hear of some new attempt to explain reasoning or language or choice naturalistically, we ought to react as if we were told that someone had squared the circle or proved the square root of 2 to be rational: only the mildest curiosity is in order-how well has the fallacy been concealed?
You gotta wonder what the Mrs thought of these arguments. I understand she was rather critical when some guy in the Medieval and Renaissance Lit department tried to argue for the same conclusion.
....
"Life must originate, we are told, wherever the physical conditions for life are favourable: and there must be so many planets on which life has originated that on millions of them rational beings will have evolved by natural selection. But rational beings cannot so come to be: the coming to be of a rational creature is strictly miraculous -- it exceeds all the powers of sub-rational nature.
When we hear of some new attempt to explain reasoning or language or choice naturalistically, we ought to react as if we were told that someone had squared the circle or proved the square root of 2 to be rational: only the mildest curiosity is in order-how well has the fallacy been concealed?
You gotta wonder what the Mrs thought of these arguments. I understand she was rather critical when some guy in the Medieval and Renaissance Lit department tried to argue for the same conclusion.
Friday, November 24, 2017
Linville on Dennett
Another one from Mark Linville, on Dennett:
Daniel Dennett thinks there is no such thing as "what-it-is-like" to be in pain, i.e., the "ouchiness" of pain. There are only the observable and measurable causes and effects of pain, such as the firing of c-fibers and the person's body hollering "OUCH!"
I think there is such a thing as "what-it-is-like" to be astonished at the claim that there is no such thing as "what-it-is-like" to be in pain.
Monday, November 20, 2017
Friday, November 17, 2017
Mark Linville on an atheist retort to religious morality
A common atheist retort: "Would you rape, pillage, and plunder if you did not have the Bible to tell you not to?"
The implication is that this would be a superficial morality. And it would indeed.
Reply: Theists and atheists alike refrain from such acts because conscience tells them that it is wrong. The question is whether they have equally good explanations for why we should suppose that conscience is a reliable guide to truth.
Thursday, November 16, 2017
Wednesday, November 08, 2017
Ortega y Gasset on science and its limits
“Scientific truth is characterized by its
precision and the certainty of its predictions. But science achieves these
admirable qualities at the cost of remaining on the level of secondary
concerns, leaving ultimate and decisive questions untouched.”
José Ortega y Gasset, “El
origen deportivo del estado.” Citius,
Altius,
Fortius
9,
no. 1-4 (1967): 259-76.
I guess that makes him a darned science denier.
Tuesday, November 07, 2017
A fundamentalist after all? Dawkins on what would change his mind
"Passion for passion, an evangelical Christian and I may be evenly matched. But we are not equally fundamentalist. The true scientist, however passionately he may 'believe', in evolution for example, knows exactly what would change his mind: evidence! The fundamentalist knows that nothing will."
- Richard Dawkins, "How dare you call me a fundamentalist" (2007)
From 2015:
- Richard Dawkins, "How dare you call me a fundamentalist" (2007)
From 2015:
Boghossian: What would it take for you to believe in God?
Dawkins: I used to say it would be very simple. It would be the Second Coming of Jesus or a great, big, deep, booming, bass voice saying “I am God.” But I was persuaded, mostly by Steve Zara, who is a regular contributor to my website. He more or less persuaded me that even if there was this booming voice in the Second Coming with clouds of glory, the probable explanation is that it is a hallucination or a conjuring trick by David Copperfield. He made the point that a supernatural explanation for anything is incoherent. It doesn’t add up to an explanation for anything. A non-supernatural Second Coming could be aliens from outer space.
https://shadowtolight.wordpress.com/2015/11/30/4-dawkins-admits-nothing-can-persuade-him-god-exists/
Was the Texas shooter motivated by atheism?
Here.
Well, why couldn't atheist hatred and fanaticism lead someone to violence? Would anyone have any trouble believing it of Muslim or anti-abortion fanatics? And atheist leaders do spew real hatred.
When ideology develops into hatred, it opens the door to the possibility of violence. It doesn't matter what the ideology is.
Well, why couldn't atheist hatred and fanaticism lead someone to violence? Would anyone have any trouble believing it of Muslim or anti-abortion fanatics? And atheist leaders do spew real hatred.
When ideology develops into hatred, it opens the door to the possibility of violence. It doesn't matter what the ideology is.
Monday, November 06, 2017
Saturday, November 04, 2017
The real point: C. S. Lewis and the Question of Truth
Here.
The real question is whether Christianity is true, not if it is useful or good for people to have.
The real question is whether Christianity is true, not if it is useful or good for people to have.
Thursday, November 02, 2017
How Euthyphro Challenges us all
A paper presented by Richard Klaus at Glendale Community College, which I attended.
A tweet from Brett Kunkle
If you think marriage & sex are primarily a means to self-fulfillment, you do NOT have a #Christian #worldview on these matters.
Monday, October 30, 2017
Feser on the argument from indeterminacy
Sunday, October 29, 2017
Why mental states are not emergent the way solidity is
Are mental states emergent in the same sense that solid states are, or that living states are? Hal and David have been arguing this.
Solidity is not written into the laws of physics, yet, if the particles are configured in a certain way, we have something solid. Similarly, if certain configurations of the physical obtain, an object can be said to be living, even if life is not part of basic physics.
So similarly, "Believes that P" or even "infers P from Q" are not part of physics, but given certain configurations of the physical, these can still be true of wholly physical human beings.
I think there is a critical difference.In the first cases, someone who knew enough physics could close the question of whether something was solid or not. If I move, am capable of reproduction, if I have a DNA code, etc. if my physics fits all these descriptions, then it becomes simply incoherent to suggest that I'm really not alive.
But in the case of minds it is different. Someone can have no outward behavioral criteria for, say, dreaming that Trump won the election (when election day hadn't happened yet). This happened to me. No one looking at me could have surmised that that was what I was dreaming about, but that was.my inner state, and my memory of that, tells me I was dreaming about Trump winning.
Given the physical, the mental is indeterminate. But we are in determinate mental states, otherwise logic would not work. Therefore the mental is something over and above the physical.
Solidity is not written into the laws of physics, yet, if the particles are configured in a certain way, we have something solid. Similarly, if certain configurations of the physical obtain, an object can be said to be living, even if life is not part of basic physics.
So similarly, "Believes that P" or even "infers P from Q" are not part of physics, but given certain configurations of the physical, these can still be true of wholly physical human beings.
I think there is a critical difference.In the first cases, someone who knew enough physics could close the question of whether something was solid or not. If I move, am capable of reproduction, if I have a DNA code, etc. if my physics fits all these descriptions, then it becomes simply incoherent to suggest that I'm really not alive.
But in the case of minds it is different. Someone can have no outward behavioral criteria for, say, dreaming that Trump won the election (when election day hadn't happened yet). This happened to me. No one looking at me could have surmised that that was what I was dreaming about, but that was.my inner state, and my memory of that, tells me I was dreaming about Trump winning.
Given the physical, the mental is indeterminate. But we are in determinate mental states, otherwise logic would not work. Therefore the mental is something over and above the physical.
Friday, October 27, 2017
Wednesday, October 25, 2017
Saturday, October 21, 2017
Sure, I'm a materialist!: On defining the supernatural
Suppose I said this:
Sure, I'll accept that the mind is a physical thing. What I find unreasonable is to suppose that laws of physics presently understood account for the activity of reasoning, because the laws of physics make no reference to reasons and logic. The laws of physics as we currently understand them do not include these in the fundamental laws of physics. There must be some laws that physics has not yet discovered which account for the activity of the mind.
Eventually we may find out the laws of physics that govern the activity of God. We just don't know what those are yet. But it's only supernatural from the point of view of present physics, in much the way that relativity is supernatural from the point of view of Newtonian mechanics.
I'm not putting an artificial wall up and say what science may or may not someday discover. If you want to say that in order to call something physical it has to be such and such, and what you are describing cannot be physical, then you have defined the supernatural for me.
Sure, I'll accept that the mind is a physical thing. What I find unreasonable is to suppose that laws of physics presently understood account for the activity of reasoning, because the laws of physics make no reference to reasons and logic. The laws of physics as we currently understand them do not include these in the fundamental laws of physics. There must be some laws that physics has not yet discovered which account for the activity of the mind.
Eventually we may find out the laws of physics that govern the activity of God. We just don't know what those are yet. But it's only supernatural from the point of view of present physics, in much the way that relativity is supernatural from the point of view of Newtonian mechanics.
I'm not putting an artificial wall up and say what science may or may not someday discover. If you want to say that in order to call something physical it has to be such and such, and what you are describing cannot be physical, then you have defined the supernatural for me.
Friday, October 20, 2017
C. S. Lewis on homosexuality at his public school
It is interesting that Lewis doesn't think that the main source of what would now be called homophobia is Christian at all.
The Wyvernians seem to me in retrospect to have been the least spontaneous, in that sense the least boyish, society I have ever known. It would perhaps not be too much to say that in some boys’ lives everything was calculated to the great end of advancement. For this games were played; for this clothes, friends, amusements, and vices were chosen.
And that is why I cannot give pederasty anything like a first place among the evils of the Coll. There is much hypocrisy on this theme. People commonly talk as if every other evil were more tolerable than this. But why? Because those of us who do not share the vice feel for it a certain nausea, as we do, say, for necrophily? I think that of very little relevance to moral judgment. Because it produces permanent perversion? But there is very little evidence that it does. The Bloods would have preferred girls to boys if they could have come by them; when, at a later age, girls were obtainable, they probably took them. Is it then on Christian grounds? But how many of those who fulminate on the matter are in fact Christians? And what Christian, in a society as worldly and cruel as that of Wyvern, would pick out the carnal sins for special reprobation? Cruelty is surely more evil than lust and the World at least as dangerous as the Flesh. The real reason for all the pother is, in my opinion, neither Christian nor ethical. We attack this vice not because it is the worst but because it is, by adult standards, the most disreputable and unmentionable, and happens also to be a crime in English law. The world may lead you only to Hell; but sodomy may lead you to jail and creat a scandal, and lose you your job. The World, to do it justice, seldom does that.
If those of us who have known a school like Wyvern dared to speak the truth, we should have to say that pederasty, however great an evil in itself, was, in that time and place, the only foothold or cranny left for certain good things. It was the only counterpoise to the social struggle; the one oasis (though green only with weeds and moist only with fetid water) in the burning desert of competitive ambition. In his unnatural love affairs, and perhaps only there, the Blood went a little out of himself, forgot for a few hours that he was One of the Most Important People There Are. It softens the picture. A perversion was the only chink left through which something spontaneous and uncalculating could creep in. Plato was right after all. Eros, turned upside down, blackened, distorted, and filthy, still bore the traces of his divinity.
Gardens, Fairies, gardeners and owners
Also from John Lennox's God's Undertaker, p. 40.
Richard Dawkins makes this point in dedicating his book The God
Delusion to the memory of Douglas Adams with a quote: ‘Isn’t it enough
to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are
fairies at the bottom of it?’
The fact that you can think about fairies and be enchanted or terrified
by them does not mean that they exist. The scientists of whom we are
speaking, therefore, are (often, but not always, as we have seen) happy to
let people go on thinking about God and religion if they want to, as long
as they do not claim that God has any objective existence, or that religious
belief constitutes knowledge. In other words, science and religion can
peacefully co-exist as long as religion does not invade the realm of science.
For only science can tell us what is objectively true; only science can
deliver knowledge. The bottom line is: science deals with reality, religion
does not.
Certain elements of these assumptions and claims are so outlandish that
they call for immediate comment. Take the Douglas Adams quote cited by
Dawkins above. It gives the game away. For it shows that Dawkins is guilty
of committing the error of proposing false alternatives by suggesting that
it is either fairies or nothing. Fairies at the bottom of the garden may well
be a delusion, but what about a gardener, to say nothing about an owner?
The possibility of their existence cannot be so summarily dismissed – in
fact, most gardens have both.
Richard Dawkins makes this point in dedicating his book The God
Delusion to the memory of Douglas Adams with a quote: ‘Isn’t it enough
to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are
fairies at the bottom of it?’
The fact that you can think about fairies and be enchanted or terrified
by them does not mean that they exist. The scientists of whom we are
speaking, therefore, are (often, but not always, as we have seen) happy to
let people go on thinking about God and religion if they want to, as long
as they do not claim that God has any objective existence, or that religious
belief constitutes knowledge. In other words, science and religion can
peacefully co-exist as long as religion does not invade the realm of science.
For only science can tell us what is objectively true; only science can
deliver knowledge. The bottom line is: science deals with reality, religion
does not.
Certain elements of these assumptions and claims are so outlandish that
they call for immediate comment. Take the Douglas Adams quote cited by
Dawkins above. It gives the game away. For it shows that Dawkins is guilty
of committing the error of proposing false alternatives by suggesting that
it is either fairies or nothing. Fairies at the bottom of the garden may well
be a delusion, but what about a gardener, to say nothing about an owner?
The possibility of their existence cannot be so summarily dismissed – in
fact, most gardens have both.
Tuesday, October 17, 2017
The argument from DNA
Here. Oh, and can we skip the "Flew didn't write his book" discussion? This is an argument, so focus on that, not the personalities.
Monday, October 16, 2017
Saturday, October 14, 2017
William Hasker's Principle C
In William Hasker’s essay, “Transcendental Refutation of
Determinism,” he presents principle C, which says
C) For a
person to be justified in accepting a conclusion, the reasoning process must be
guided by rational insight based on the principles of sound reasoning.
But if naturalism is true, physical laws govern the world,
and people will think and conclude in accordance with the principles of sound
reasoning only if physical law (or physical law combined with quantum chance),
determine that they will reason soundly. Therefore, Hasker concludes, in a
physicalist world, the principles of sound reasoning are inoperative, and
condition C is not satisfied.20
Brain processes are physical events. They occur in accordance with the
laws of physics, and the laws of reason and evidence do not explain brain
processes as physical events. Our brains follow the laws of physics
automatically, we obey the laws of logic or laws of evidence, when we do, only
when the laws of physics (together with the prior facts) dictate that they do
so. We may possibly act in accordance with reason, but never, as Kant would
say, from reason. Given this, William Hasker's conclusion principle C applies:
the laws of logic and evidence, or as he puts it, the principles of sound reasoning,
are inoperative.Friday, October 13, 2017
Reductionism provably fails in mathematics. Can it succeed in science?
From John Lennox's God's Undertaker, 52-53.
The
great mathematician David Hilbert, spurred on by the singular
achievements
of mathematical compression, thought that the reductionist
programme
of mathematics could be carried out to such an extent that in
the
end all of mathematics could be compressed into a collection of formal
statements
in a finite set of symbols together with a finite set of axioms and
rules
of inference. It was a seductive thought with the ultimate in ‘bottom-up’
explanation
as the glittering prize. Mathematics, if Hilbert’s Programme
were
to succeed, would henceforth be reduced to a set of written marks
that
could be manipulated according to prescribed rules without any
attention
being paid to the applications that would give ‘significance’ to
those
marks. In particular, the truth or falsity of any given string of symbols
would
be decided by some general algorithmic process. The hunt was
on
to solve the so-called Entscheidungsproblem by finding that general
decision
procedure.
Experience
suggested to Hilbert and others that the Entscheidungsproblem
would
be solved positively. But their intuition proved wrong. In 1931
the
Austrian mathematician Kurt Godel published a paper entitled ‘On
Formally
Undecidable Propositions of Principia Mathematica and Related
Systems’.
His paper, though only twenty-five pages long, caused the
mathematical
equivalent of an earthquake whose reverberations are still
palpable.
For Godel had actually proved that Hilbert’s Programme was
doomed
in that it was unrealizable. In a piece of mathematics that stands
as
an intellectual tour-de-force of the first magnitude, Godel demonstrated
that
the arithmetic with which we are all familiar is incomplete: that is,
in
any system that has a finite set of axioms and rules of inference and
which
is large enough to contain ordinary arithmetic, there are always true
statements
of the system that cannot be proved on the basis of that set of
axioms
and those rules of inference. This result is known as Godel’s First
Incompleteness
Theorem.
Now
Hilbert’s Programme also aimed to prove the essential consistency
of
his formulation of mathematics as a formal system. Godel, in his
Second
Incompleteness Theorem, shattered that hope as well. He proved
that
one of the statements that cannot be proved in a sufficiently strong
formal
system is the consistency of the system itself. In other words, if
arithmetic
is consistent then that fact is one of the things that cannot be
proved
in the system. It is something that we can only believe on the basis
of
the evidence, or by appeal to higher axioms. This has been succinctly
summarized
by saying that if a religion is something whose foundations
are
based on faith, then mathematics is the only religion that can prove it
is
a religion!
In
informal terms, as the British-born American physicist and
mathematician
Freeman Dyson puts it, ‘Godel proved that in mathematics
the
whole is always greater than the sum of the parts’.10 Thus there is a limit
to
reductionism. Therefore, Peter Atkins’ statement, cited earlier, that ‘the
only
grounds for supposing that reductionism will fail are pessimism in
the
minds of the scientists and fear in the minds of the religious’ is simply
incorrect.
The testability of scientism
What science cannot discover, mankind cannot know?
No chance.
The statement I quoted from Russell above is obviously self-refuting. It is not a scientifically testable claim, so if it is true, it cannot be known to be true.
No chance.
The statement I quoted from Russell above is obviously self-refuting. It is not a scientifically testable claim, so if it is true, it cannot be known to be true.
Thursday, October 12, 2017
One argument for gay marriage
Historically, people in society depended upon successful reproduction. Hence, barren women were considered cursed (though in the Bible they ended up getting pregnant eventually, starting with Sarah). Think about how people were taken care of in their old age before Social Security. An underpopulated country would be less able to defend itself in a war, for example. But now, this isn't the case. We don't feel that reproductive success is necessary for our happiness, and the world is getting overpopulated. It doesn't bother me that I have only stepchildren, not children. We now choose our own mates (something that most people didn't do through most of the history of the world), and so nowadays we ought to be able to choose our mates in accordance with our sexual orientation, since we are no longer motivated by the need for successful reproduction.
It's something to think about.
It's something to think about.
Is this discrimination?
Oozielionel: It seems that
there is an attempt at a distinction between refusing service to a person and
declining to perform a specific service. Masterpiece will sell any cake to any
person. However, he will not create certain cakes (Halloween, erotic, same sex
weddings). Refusing to sell specific products is different than refusing to
serve specific people. On the face it is defensible. However, it may be
possible to orient your product offerings in such a way that effectively and
purposely eliminates a specific clientele. In most cases this is simple market
segmentation. It may break across protected class lines. A clothing store may
select product lines specific to ethnic or religious preferences. A book store
can select titles favorable to one religion and refuse to care those contrary.
Masterpiece Bakery has a viable argument.
VR: That is just the point I
was trying to make when I presented the Bar Mitzvah argument. Does Lifeway
stores discriminate against atheists by not selling The God Delusion? Of course
they will sell a copy of Mere Christianity to any atheist who walks in the
door. If a Masterpiece were to tell the gay couple "Sure, we'll bake you a
cake. We just refuse to put anything on the cake that indicates that you are a
same-sex couple That is not a product we provide." are they discriminating?
In some cases I think wedding service providers can begin not with refusal but by unrecommending themselves, such as in the case of wedding photography. "It's not that we won't do it, it's just that we need to let you know we're against gay marriage, and think that someone who believes in gay marriage would do a better job." Is THAT discrimination, or just honesty?
In some cases I think wedding service providers can begin not with refusal but by unrecommending themselves, such as in the case of wedding photography. "It's not that we won't do it, it's just that we need to let you know we're against gay marriage, and think that someone who believes in gay marriage would do a better job." Is THAT discrimination, or just honesty?
Tuesday, October 10, 2017
When did gay marriage become legal?
The first gay wedding in America took place in 1969 at the Metropolitan Community Church in Huntington Beach, CA. Nobody went to jail because of it, so I take it that means that gay marriage was legal in 1969. 46 years before Obergfell.
Some Christians may not be too pleased about this, but it looks as if Christians invented gay marriage.
Some Christians may not be too pleased about this, but it looks as if Christians invented gay marriage.
Monday, October 09, 2017
Bar Mitzvah Catering Services, and the Cake debate
What if I set up a catering service to provide catering to Bar Mitzvahs. Would I be discriminating against non-Jews if I did that? After all, I would be willing to cater anyone's Bar Mitzvah, whether or not they were Jewish.
Are Christian bookstores discriminating against nonbelievers because their stores carry only Christian-oriented books? Could an atheist sue Lifeway Christian Stores because they refused to special-order The God Delusion?
If one were to open up a Christian bake shop, or a Christian flower shop, could one then refuse to serve a gay wedding? If you define your product sufficiently, could you avoid the discrimination charge? What we sell, you might state, are Christian-compatible flower arrangements or wedding cakes. Anyone, gay or not, can get a Christian-compatible flower arrangement or wedding cake. How is this different from having a Christian bookstore or a Bar Mitzvah catering service.
Apparently you can define your product as something that appeals only to one group without being accused of discrimination.
Are Christian bookstores discriminating against nonbelievers because their stores carry only Christian-oriented books? Could an atheist sue Lifeway Christian Stores because they refused to special-order The God Delusion?
If one were to open up a Christian bake shop, or a Christian flower shop, could one then refuse to serve a gay wedding? If you define your product sufficiently, could you avoid the discrimination charge? What we sell, you might state, are Christian-compatible flower arrangements or wedding cakes. Anyone, gay or not, can get a Christian-compatible flower arrangement or wedding cake. How is this different from having a Christian bookstore or a Bar Mitzvah catering service.
Apparently you can define your product as something that appeals only to one group without being accused of discrimination.
The Christian Response to gay marriage? C. S. Lewis says R-E-L-A-X. Or was that Aaron Rodgers?
Should Christians react about gay marriage? Jonty Langley, appealing to C. S. Lewis, thinks so.
Sunday, October 08, 2017
Thursday, October 05, 2017
Tuesday, October 03, 2017
Sunday, October 01, 2017
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