tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post6683629737014385829..comments2024-03-27T15:34:14.749-07:00Comments on dangerous idea: Eric Erickson on Trump as the anti-ChristVictor Repperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10962948073162156902noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-57311534827415848042016-11-11T06:58:45.464-07:002016-11-11T06:58:45.464-07:00VR: "But pro-life laws don't save fetuses...<b>VR:</b> "<i>But pro-life laws don't save fetuses.</i>"<br /><br />*eyeroll*<br /><br />Well, then, it's a good thing I don't give a damn about "pro-life" laws; I want anti-abortion laws.<br /><br /><b>VR:</b> "<i>In countries where abortions are legal on a woman’s request, 34 women in every 1,000 have one. In countries where abortions are always illegal or legal only if a woman’s life is in danger, 37 women in every 1,000 have one.</i>"<br /><br />*eyeroll*<br /><br />Ah! So *that's* why the pro-abortionists in the US freak out every time any State imposes even the most minor of restrictions upon their multi-billion dollar industry, such as requiring their abattoirs to maintain even the most minimal of health standards or requiring the murderers there employed to have admitting rights at near-by hospitals for those inevitable and frequent cases in which their act of murdering the infant endangers the life of the woman who hired them to murder her infant.<br /><br />Whodda thunk it? Pro-abortionists are just trying to keep the numbers of murders performed by abortionists down; that's why they freak out.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-25526352633257021072016-11-09T16:53:44.946-07:002016-11-09T16:53:44.946-07:00The Church has not so declared. But its greatest p...<i>The Church has not so declared. But its greatest poet, Dante Alighieri, vividly described the sin and its effect in The Divine Comedy.</i><br /><br />Just chiming in to say that Dante also was unique in casting a reigning pope as being damned to hell.<br /><br />That said, I can see what Bob is talking about as being an ill. But 'mortal sin' or even 'grave sin' is another matter. Probably easier to find sin in the actions one takes in the name of a political party.<br /><br />As for me, I'm sin free on that front. Voted for Trump over the abortion-witch, you know.Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-81496135359170364242016-11-09T12:10:32.271-07:002016-11-09T12:10:32.271-07:00If you're balking at the term "mortal sin...If you're balking at the term "mortal sin", then substitute "grave sin". I don't believe there is an "official" definition for that phrase.B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-71838980092118994142016-11-09T06:13:46.793-07:002016-11-09T06:13:46.793-07:00Gyan,
The Church has not so declared. But its gre...Gyan,<br /><br />The Church has not so declared. But its greatest poet, Dante Alighieri, vividly described the sin and its effect in <i>The Divine Comedy</i>. He had an entire circle of Hell (the fourth) dedicated to it. Most telling to me was Virgil's admonition to Dante that he not attempt to make out any one individual amongst the mass of sinners there. <br /><br /><i>"Why sir," said I, "surely there must be some <br />Faces I know in all this gang, thus brought<br />By these defilements to a common doom."<br /><br />"Nay," he replied, "that is an empty thought;<br />Living their minds distinguished nothing; dead,<br />They cannot be distinguished."</i><br />(<i>The Inferno</i>, Canto VII, Lines 49-54, the Dorothy Sayers translation)<br /><br />The surrender of their intellects to a party spirit had robbed them of any individuality to the point that one could no longer tell them apart from each other. Hyper-partisanship thus deprives us of our very personhood, an effect common to all mortal sin.B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-51686323026480140562016-11-08T21:40:35.826-07:002016-11-08T21:40:35.826-07:00Prokop,
"Partisanship (or, at least, hyper-pa... Prokop,<br />"Partisanship (or, at least, hyper-partisanship) is a mortal sin"<br /><br />Never heard of this sin, mortal or otherwise. <br />Now, as "mortal sin" is a category in Catholic teaching, could you cite where the Catholic Church has declared partisanship to be a mortal sin?Gyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941686166886986037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-43206060165007445702016-11-08T11:25:52.431-07:002016-11-08T11:25:52.431-07:00And your (very strange) accusation makes even less...And your (very strange) accusation makes even less sense when you consider Christ's words in their context. A man comes before Him, and asks Jesus to intervene in their economic dispute. Christ declines to do so, saying (albeit obliquely) that He is neither judge nor divider in our economic (and therefore, in our political) affairs.<br /><br />And even were I incorrectly interpreting the passage, that would still not make me a <i>liar</i> but simply mistaken.B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-38613116064837628452016-11-08T11:09:12.424-07:002016-11-08T11:09:12.424-07:00Lies? I quoted Him exactly! (Or, at least, in tran...<b>Lies? I quoted Him exactly!</b> (Or, at least, in translation. Here it is in Latin: "<i>Homo, quis me constituit iudicem aut divisorem super vos?</i>" Perhaps still not the original, but closer to it than in English.)<br /><br />You've repeatedly made this accusation, but have never once explained your reasoning.B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-87673559444886282562016-11-08T09:23:38.784-07:002016-11-08T09:23:38.784-07:00^ And, once again, B.Prokop lies about what Christ...^ And, once again, B.Prokop lies about what Christ said.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-53165258327588085002016-11-08T09:10:44.887-07:002016-11-08T09:10:44.887-07:00An even more famous "Hyper-partisan" als...An even more famous "Hyper-partisan" also said, "<i>Man, who made me a judge or divider over you?</i>"B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-22447990223195965362016-11-08T09:06:00.620-07:002016-11-08T09:06:00.620-07:00A famous hyper-partisan once said, "What fell...A famous hyper-partisan once said, "<i>What fellowship has light with darkness?</i>"Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-25970424027856366232016-11-08T08:31:13.215-07:002016-11-08T08:31:13.215-07:00Partisanship (or, at least, hyper-partisanship) is...Partisanship (or, at least, hyper-partisanship) is a <b>mortal sin</b>, and needs to be condemned with the same fervor that we condemn murder, false witness, adultery, or idolatry.B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-18974872006842967582016-11-08T08:28:50.188-07:002016-11-08T08:28:50.188-07:00For the ten millionth time - I don't have a po...For the ten millionth time - <b>I don't <i>have</i> a political faction.</b> Yes, I used to - I will not deny it - but those days are long gone. I am, and have been for some time now, aggressively non-partisan (a "middle of the road extremist").B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-44554742261159772072016-11-08T07:57:32.741-07:002016-11-08T07:57:32.741-07:00^^ Until B.Prokop is willing to admit that the Dem...^^ Until B.Prokop is willing to <i>admit</i> that the Democratic Party is <i>actively and deliberately wicked</i>, he might as well be Joe Hinman.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-87493863769713720682016-11-08T07:44:26.918-07:002016-11-08T07:44:26.918-07:00^ That's because your political faction is a w...^ That's because your political faction is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Satan, and you don't want to admit it.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-23310605773979589882016-11-08T07:36:30.874-07:002016-11-08T07:36:30.874-07:00Did you just say something?
("Whenever anyon...Did you just say something?<br /><br />("<i>Whenever anyone (Ilion, are you listening?) says every societal ill can be blamed on some political faction, of which the speaker is always (conveniently) not an adherent, I stop listening.</i>")B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-60065319603490763542016-11-08T07:10:01.171-07:002016-11-08T07:10:01.171-07:00B.Prokop: "I am sick and tired of everything ...<b>B.Prokop:</b> "<i>I am sick and tired of everything being turned into a political issue ...</i>"<br /><br />Translation: I am sick and tired of the crimes and sins of the Democratic Party being pointed to as being crimes and sins.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-30627314217150988052016-11-08T06:58:20.755-07:002016-11-08T06:58:20.755-07:00VR: "Generally we lock people up when there i...<b>VR:</b> "<i>Generally we lock people up when there is no reasonable doubt about what they did. Can we establish beyond a reasonable doubt that fetuses are persons. Even if you think they are, to support anti-abortion morality with legal force you need to make the case against it beyond a reasonable doubt.</i>"<br /><br />Really? Is that the best you can come up with?<br /><br /><i>All laws are backed-up up by giving agents of the state the permission to employ force and violence-unto-death against those *suspected* of breaking those laws</i>. *All* laws are backed-up up by the threat og violent death even *before* one's case is adjudicated before stately tribunals.<br /><br />"<i>Generally we [execute] people [only] when there is no reasonable doubt about what they did [being a heinous crime]. Can we establish beyond a reasonable doubt that [speeders] are [guilty of heinous crimes]. Even if you think they are, to support anti-[speeding] morality with legal [and lethal] force you need to make the case against it beyond a reasonable doubt.</i>"<br /><br /><i>Clearly</i>, we cannot have laws against speeding -- because there is always someone who will deny that speeding is serious enough merit the meting out of death-on-the-spot.<br /><br />Meanwhile, the very people formerly denied that "fetuses" are "persons", and therefore that abortion is not murder, are now taking that logic *exactly* where we anti-abortionists <i>have always said it must go</i> -- "<i>Generally we lock people up when there is no reasonable doubt about what they did. Can we establish beyond a reasonable doubt that [neonates] are persons. Even if you think they are, to support anti-[infanticide] morality with legal force you need to make the case against it beyond a reasonable doubt.</i>"<br /><br /><b>VR:</b> "<i>Can we establish beyond a reasonable doubt that fetuses are persons.</i>"<br /><br />Why is it that when people want to hide the nature of the crimes and sins of which they approve, they stop using Anglo-Saxon?<br /><br /><b>VR:</b> "<i>Trump as the guardian of the unborn? I find this unbelievable.</i>"<br /><br />Unlike *all* the Democrats, Trump doesn't appear to be a <i>doctrinaire</i> pro-abortionist. He appears to be someone who until recently hadn't really given it any deep thought ... and, it <i>appears</i> that when he did gave it a bit of thought, he came to the right conclusion (i.e. that women as morally responsible for their sins and crimes as men are for theirs).<br /><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVI3bmN8TI" rel="nofollow">Milton Friedman:</a> "<i>It's nice to elect the right people, but that isn't the way you solve things. The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.</i>"Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-16158576648678115752016-11-07T22:54:31.837-07:002016-11-07T22:54:31.837-07:00if you can't prove they are people you can'...if you can't prove they are people you can't prove it doesn't pass. <br /><br />Said the slaveowners. More seriously, I don't care about whatever nonsense rules you pull out of your posterior.<br /><br /><b>I think I could prove a born adult black person is a person as much as a born adult white person.I am assuming we must accept someone is a person at some point. The two are not analogous since slave are mostly born people.</b><br /><br /><br /><br />which we would be had the right wing reps not spent 30 years building a culture of hate<br /><br />Says the self-hater.<br /><br /><b>conclusion not in evidence, you are basing that on some folksy idea that liberals are liberals through self hating guilt. you forget i'm actually a colonialist. we love ourselves and hate oppressors.</b><br /><br /><br /><br />Joe, with all due respect, don't you have an female minister to listen to while she yammers on about how Jesus was really a hermaphrodite and Shi would demand we vote for the first female president because God wants womyn in power to protect to enact Her will?<br /><br />Admittedly, that's not much respect, but then little is due, so...<br /><br /><br /><b>do you really think that bit of hysterical utterance does anything but convene me that fudnies are nuts? what I get out of that bit of raving is that you have some deep seated fear about your own manhood,that is what drives your sexism. Those of us who are secure in our manhood don't need be hyspterically afarid to include women as valid people.</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-60368863040102171342016-11-07T22:45:58.539-07:002016-11-07T22:45:58.539-07:00I am surprized no one quoted that Jeremiah passage...I am surprized no one quoted that Jeremiah passage about he knew me when I was in the womb, that would make him a person, doesn't say the trimesterJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-27739774642652146372016-11-07T22:08:00.534-07:002016-11-07T22:08:00.534-07:00if you can't prove they are people you can'...<i>if you can't prove they are people you can't prove it doesn't pass. </i><br /><br />Said the slaveowners. More seriously, I don't care about whatever nonsense rules you pull out of your posterior.<br /><br /><i>which we would be had the right wing reps not spent 30 years building a culture of hate</i><br /><br />Says the self-hater.<br /><br />Joe, with all due respect, don't you have an female minister to listen to while she yammers on about how Jesus was really a hermaphrodite and Shi would demand we vote for the first female president because God wants womyn in power to protect to enact Her will?<br /><br />Admittedly, that's not much respect, but then little is due, so...Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-25144499198026065352016-11-07T21:57:29.388-07:002016-11-07T21:57:29.388-07:00All humans are persons. There is no non-person hum...All humans are persons. There is no non-person human. A fetus is an unborn human. Thus, a fetus is a person. <br />Either you believe in the premises or you don't.<br /><br /><br /><b>wrong! you clearly have not read Taylor. <i>indispensable to any discussion on this issue,</i><br /><br />making politics the primary decision making paradigm and putting law and philosophy on the back burner some kind of antiquated quaint old relics reminds me of what Trotsky said about Stalinist's principles, The Stalinists think principals are dead weight but they are really ballast.</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-25195871651539959242016-11-07T21:51:21.160-07:002016-11-07T21:51:21.160-07:00We also generally will not commit to an action unl...We also generally will not commit to an action unless we have reasonable certainty no one will be harmed by it. Abortion doesn't pass that test.<br /><br /><b>if you can't prove they are people you can't prove it doesn't pass. The thing is we are not debating the rightness of abortion we are debating weather or not that one issue should be the voting deal breaker for Christians. The court has ruled the President does not have authority to change it,it is ridiculous to hod the future of the country hostage to that one isssue</b><br /><br />Anyway, this sort of reasoning only works with a country that is generally on the same page with fundamental worldview and commitments. We don't have that anymore. Whoever wins tomorrow, have fun with what's to follow.<br /><br /><b>which we would be had the right wing reps not spent 30 years building a culture of hate and tearing down education and demonizing everyone wh is notin thier camp</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-67057592816463428152016-11-07T21:45:00.194-07:002016-11-07T21:45:00.194-07:00Personhood is a whimsical legal concept. Just ask ...Personhood is a whimsical legal concept. Just ask blacks in the American south a couple hundred years ago whether personhood is such a great measuring stick.<br /><br /><b>Personhood is what we have to protect. But it;'s a complex concept, Read Charles Taylor's <i>Sources or the Self</i> to see how complex. Just because white society didn't extend persohnhood to slaves doesn't jean they were not persons.</b><br /><br />The question for pro-abortion people is, at what point does a human life have worth? The non-brainwashed know the answer, but what do pro-choice people think? (See what I did there, Joe? It isn't wise to call someone brainwashed for having a different opinion than you, since the charge is so easily reversed.)<br /><br /><b>I did not call anyone brain washed for having a different opinion, The people who think Hillary is guilty of some imaginary crime for she needs to be shot or put in jail with no formal charge and no trial, or those who see her as the evil person on earth, are brainwashed. People who disagree with me on abortion are not necessarily brain washed.</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-73120011591755466162016-11-07T21:37:56.573-07:002016-11-07T21:37:56.573-07:00Blogger Victor Reppert said...
Generally we lock p...Blogger Victor Reppert said...<br />Generally we lock people up when there is no reasonable doubt about what they did. Can we establish beyond a reasonable doubt that fetuses are persons. Even if you think they are, to support anti-abortion morality with legal force you need to make the case against it beyond a reasonable doubt.<br /><br /><br /><b>that is why I', pro choicer, i don't believe we can prove it, to that extent,i9 would council against abortion but I would not try to dictate.</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-25310873281901583852016-11-07T21:34:02.924-07:002016-11-07T21:34:02.924-07:00"Can we establish beyond a reasonable doubt t..."Can we establish beyond a reasonable doubt that fetuses are persons."<br />VR, your idealism is showing again. Next, you will ask for proof that there are persons beyond your own self. <br />Anyway, this asking for legal proofs is silly. It is a political question and not susceptible to the kind of legal juggling you trying to create. <br />All humans are persons. There is no non-person human. A fetus is an unborn human. Thus, a fetus is a person. <br />Either you believe in the premises or you don't. Gyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941686166886986037noreply@blogger.com