tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post6463888031560185095..comments2024-03-28T12:34:14.649-07:00Comments on dangerous idea: How the NRA became radically opposed to all gun controlVictor Repperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10962948073162156902noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-13014647592815844242018-05-07T08:22:45.347-07:002018-05-07T08:22:45.347-07:00Legion of Logic said...
Even if we don't diffe...Legion of Logic said...<br /><i>Even if we don't differentiate and see how many people who safely store and handle their firearms, and who have healthy relationships and habits, </i><br /><br />It only takes one mistake or one bad day.<br /><br /><i>die from their own guns (close to zero), we can still divide number of gun owners into number of people killed by their own guns, and the risk is ridiculously small.</i><br /><br />Yet, still larger than the number of times the gun is used in self-defense.<br /><br />No one is trying to stop you from adding more risk to your life, but you should be honest with yourself that this is what you are doing, for your own sake.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-90943830907648332862018-05-07T06:02:46.052-07:002018-05-07T06:02:46.052-07:00Everyone who has used a gun for self defense was g...Everyone who has used a gun for self defense was glad they were prepared. That's why I'm prepared, and why I will raise my children to be prepared, and will advocate to others to be prepared. Along with this, of course, comes being responsible.<br /><br />Even if we don't differentiate and see how many people who safely store and handle their firearms, and who have healthy relationships and habits, die from their own guns (close to zero), we can still divide number of gun owners into number of people killed by their own guns, and the risk is ridiculously small. Add to that the fact that I'm not an idiot with mine, and the risk is virtually nonexistent. <br /><br />Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-30818259271047271392018-05-07T05:17:47.935-07:002018-05-07T05:17:47.935-07:00Chad Handley said...
Every person who died because...Chad Handley said...<br /><i>Every person who died because there was a gun in their home thought it was perfectly safe to have a gun in their home. And they were right until the day they weren't.</i><br /><br />So very true.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-17570136871337747212018-05-07T05:17:05.777-07:002018-05-07T05:17:05.777-07:00W.LindsayWheeler said...
Furthermore, the Declarat...W.LindsayWheeler said...<br /><i>Furthermore, the Declaration specifies that when government becomes destructive of the ends for which it is established—the “Safety and Happiness” of the people—then “it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government."</i><br /><br />The Declaration of Independence has no status in our laws.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-12362841176142005412018-05-07T05:13:42.440-07:002018-05-07T05:13:42.440-07:00SteveK said...
So now we are contesting the fact ...SteveK said...<br /><br /><i>So now we are contesting the fact that a well-armed group makes people think twice before starting a fight compared to an unarmed group? Which group would you rather pick a fight with, a well-armed group or an unarmed group?</i><br /><br />He was referring to tyrannies, not starting fights. Tyrants don't need to start fights with the populace, they prey on the fears of the populace to gain their support.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-51792665601322176742018-05-07T05:04:53.242-07:002018-05-07T05:04:53.242-07:00W.LindsayWheeler said...
To One Brow, that is why...W.LindsayWheeler said...<br /><br /><i>To One Brow, that is why God in all His Infinite Wisdom, said, "Thou shalt NOT sow thy vineyard with diverse seed". </i><br /><br />So, you think grapes and humans are identical?<br /><br /><i>And I as a man will take this silently? I'm going to stand up for my people. I am not a cowering yellow-bellied effeminate like much of the Anglo-Saxon has become. </i><br /><br />Got it. You thought that as a white male, you were allowed to be rude and condescending. You were surprised when that didn't work, but rather than blame yourself for your own inability to deal with people, you need to blame them for not bowing down to what you see as your obvious superiority, but others can tell is a hollow shell of weakness and insecurity.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-61600704625438747562018-05-07T04:59:02.252-07:002018-05-07T04:59:02.252-07:00'Less often successful' translates to a lo...<i>'Less often successful' translates to a lower total.</i><br /><br />Probably, but it may not. For all I know, people may try to commit more murders or more suicides through some indirect effect I don't foresee.One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-16780472237232192092018-05-07T02:10:36.187-07:002018-05-07T02:10:36.187-07:00Mu take on an Clarice by Dr. Report's friend K...Mu take on an Clarice by Dr. Report's friend Keith Parsons on secular outpost. Dr Parson's teaches at U. of Houston Clearlake,the issue is brain/mind.<br /><br />this my response on<a href="http://metacrock.blogspot.com/2018/05/mind-is-not-limited-to-brain-function.html" rel="nofollow"><b> Metacrock's blog</b></a><br /><br /><br />Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-33385148439095467832018-05-06T17:03:15.065-07:002018-05-06T17:03:15.065-07:00Everybody's gun is safe until they come home a...Everybody's gun is safe until they come home and find their spouse in bed with another man/woman, or their son is struggling with his sexuality and can't see any other way out, or they lose their job and are about to lose their home as a result and can't face it, or until life happens in a million other ways that can lead to tragedy.<br /><br />The statistics don't lie. A gun in your home way more likely to kill a person who lives in your home than it is to kill an intruder.<br /><br />Every person who died because there was a gun in their home thought it was perfectly safe to have a gun in their home. And they were right until the day they weren't.Screwtape Jenkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13874779097608201662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-88784009118967631492018-05-06T08:44:19.768-07:002018-05-06T08:44:19.768-07:00That would be "only to Old Testament times&qu...That would be "only <b>to</b> Old Testament times". Oh, for an "edit" function!Starhopperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350334327301656588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-76214737438717363642018-05-06T08:42:49.763-07:002018-05-06T08:42:49.763-07:00"A huge number of Christians really don't..."<i>A huge number of Christians really don't believe in God but really worship the power of money and guns.</i>"<br /><br />Exactly true. Too many people think the warnings against idolatry pertained only Old Testament times. But we have our own, even more dangerous, idols today: wealth, power, safety, fitness, national defense, the stock market, (certain) politicians... and yes, guns.<br />Starhopperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350334327301656588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-3372968083266328362018-05-06T07:13:37.782-07:002018-05-06T07:13:37.782-07:00LL I would not try to convince people not to have ...LL I would not try to convince people not to have guns. What bothers me is the idea that you can't live without one. I have lived in dangerous places,I ve been in areas with crime and poverty and did not own a gun,I know others in even more dangerous places who did not own guns,they got alone fine so did I. <br /><br />I think it's a valid motive to have a gun just to want to target practice because you like it. But if you have a gun (not 50 guns and not assault refiles) you have a responsibility to be safe with a gun. You practice gun safety. That means also living up to a social responsibility to limit gun ownership to people who can handle it, that means no mentally ill people,no hateful warped people, no depressed teens.<br /><br />I owned a gun at one time,I enjoyed shooting it. I almost killed my mother because I was careless. That doesn't mean I want take away every one's guns because I was careless. The NRA has brain washed gun owners to feel that any limit on guns is a complete ban n all all guns.<br /><br /><br />Guns give people a euphoric sense of power when they connect that to peranoic fears of everything and view guns as the only safe thing to protect them they are not having faith in God.that is making guns an idol.<br /><br />the sad fact we see a huge number of people would rather lose their children than their guns. A huge number of Christians really don't believe in God but really worship the power of money and guns,Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-18976537333155432622018-05-06T04:20:15.901-07:002018-05-06T04:20:15.901-07:00Joe,
I'm aware of those statistics. I'm ...Joe,<br /><br />I'm aware of those statistics. I'm also curious how you would have convinced the people I mentioned that they didn't need their firearms for protection, and how they would have been safer with no gun when violent attackers were present in their homes.<br /><br />I don't dispute those studies, though I'd be curious to see what other factors were present, but people who have been saved by their guns, or personally know people who have been saved by them, know the side of the story the left tends to ignore. <br /><br />I'm not claiming an easy answer with no downsides. We live in a fallen world with evil people. But one of the most unjust, disgusting things I can imagine a government doing to its people is declaring them unfit to defend themselves, self defense being one of the most basic natural rights imaginable. <br /><br />So to me it isn't so much a question of pure body count as it is a question of justice - is it just for a society to force helplessness if it can be shown to save lives numerically, with helpless victims being the acceptable sacrifice, or is it just for a society to allow the effective defense of one's self and family at the cost of more deaths related to misuse of those defensive tools? I find the former utterly repugnant and the latter highly lamentable, but my guns are safe so long as they are under my control, and so are my children to the greatest extent possible. <br /><br />Of course, if body count is the issue, we as a society should start talking about alcohol over guns, since alcohol deaths and damage far exceed that of guns.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-84145566024607670162018-05-06T03:59:51.379-07:002018-05-06T03:59:51.379-07:00Blogger Legion of Logic said...
My argument regard...<br />Blogger Legion of Logic said...<br />My argument regarding gun ownership for self-defense is identical to owning a fire extinguisher - the vast majority will never need one, but it's foolish to depend on fortune. Be prepared. The first responder is the victim, not the police or fire departments.<br /><br />Note this is not an argument for so-called assault rifles, just a general mentality of possessing the most effective means of self-defense just in case.<br /><br />May 05, 2018 5:09 PM<br /><br /><b>30 studies show, that's right 30, that guns do not reduce crime,they do not make people safer,and gun in the home creases the chance of gun death by a huge factor,<br /></b><br /><br />Melinda Wenner Moyer, "More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows.." Scientific<br /><br />American (Oct 1, 2017) <br /><br /><br />link:<br /><a href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/" rel="nofollow"><b>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/</b></a><br /><br />(accessed 2/27/18)<br /><br /><br /><br />The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.<br />But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes: murders, rapes, and others. Far less research shows that guns help.<br />Interviews with people in heavily gun-owning towns show they are not as wedded to the crime defense idea as the gun lobby claims.<br />Guns took more than 36,000 U.S. lives in 2015, and this and other alarming statistics have led many to ask whether our nation would be better off with firearms in fewer hands. Yet gun advocates argue exactly the opposite: that murders, crimes and mass shootings happen because there aren't enough guns in enough places. Arming more people will make our country safer and more peaceful, they say, because criminals won't cause trouble if they know they are surrounded by gun-toting good guys.<br /><br /><br /><br />Studies were Langley by Arthr Kellermann and associates the 80s ad 90s.<br /><br /><br /><br />Most of this research—and there have been several dozen peer-reviewed studies—punctures the idea that guns stop violence. In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not [read More]<br /><br /><br /><br />The article includes a huge amount of really important statistics and information on studies<br />Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-77138933223686092212018-05-06T03:46:59.734-07:002018-05-06T03:46:59.734-07:00Blogger Legion of Logic said...
"gun nuts ten...<br />Blogger Legion of Logic said...<br />"gun nuts tend to be racists and motivated by rascism"<br /><br />Racists may be gun nuts, but I've seen no evidence that therefore gun nuts are likely racists. I know many gun nuts, and I used to be one myself, and none of us are racists. Race has nothing to do with anything regarding the many other reasons for gun collections.<br /><br />May 05, 2018 1:33 PM<br /><br />I have seen that evidence and I quoted it, it said there are coronations between what they call symbolic racism meaning correlates of racism and gun ownership, Not to say t all gun nuts are racist but it is a likelihood. but granted just one factorJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-28981006314716968932018-05-06T03:43:31.350-07:002018-05-06T03:43:31.350-07:00You cannot control what other people do. If they w...You cannot control what other people do. If they want violence, your insistence to the contrary is irrelevant. I want guns for that reason. You don’t have to own one, but don’t tell me I shouldn’t own one.<br /><br /><b>Don't tell me I can;t go swimming! Ooo you try to black me from commingling we are going round and round, yeeeedogies,</b><br /><br /><b>Totally irrelevant comment I might persuade many others to help me in my non violent revolution, you fon't know that,it;s worth trying.<br /><br />what did I say about Banning guns? O I said I am not for banning away all guns to which Boston responds don't tell me I can;t have gun s," wow</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-81329632983048565432018-05-06T03:36:38.973-07:002018-05-06T03:36:38.973-07:00Try i did link gun nuts to racism But I didn't...Try i did link gun nuts to racism But I didn't say all gun nuts are racists,a lot of then are Not all NRA people are racists but I am betting a lot of them are. but I brought up NRA as examples of gun nuts in general.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-62447546024386140832018-05-06T03:32:55.953-07:002018-05-06T03:32:55.953-07:00SteveK said...
Joe Hinman: "the NRA is anothe...SteveK said...<br />Joe Hinman: "the NRA is another example they wont allow research, they wont allow any kind of screening for mental illness they want allow reasonable safe precautions to reduce the danger to school kids that is gunutism.<br /><br />Another example?? The NRA isn't part of your study on racist attitudes. You went from the facts of the study and jumped to the conclusion that the NRA has these same racist attitudes. That would be a non-sequitur.<br /><br /><b>what did I say about the words? read them. the paragraph before NRA begins "why don't you try thinking about the words? I said it point blank, I said I'am talking about 'gun nuts.' " Then I say NRA is another example, ie of Gun nuts, not racism gun nuts try to follow along,</b>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-71025132906535181232018-05-05T19:52:16.954-07:002018-05-05T19:52:16.954-07:00I advocate not being helpless. That's why alo...I advocate not being helpless. That's why along with learning to shoot, my kids will also learn about responsibility and safety when owning and handling guns, which would eliminate most of the risk in possessing one. At no point, though, will I ever tell them to put their safety in the hands of fate alone. Quite the opposite, in fact. They will be taught how to use one correctly, and if they opt out of owning one as adults, that's their choice. <br /><br />A well regulated militia is all fine and good, but any government that criminalizes effective self defense needs to be toppled.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-50014428642619522522018-05-05T18:58:14.363-07:002018-05-05T18:58:14.363-07:00It has been shown time and time again that a gun i...It has been shown time and time again that a gun in a house is <b>far</b> more dangerous to its owner and his family than to any hypothetical "bad guy". Now I can't speak to the individual cases you described. I do not know these people. Now I am not saying that no one needs protection. But yes, I am emphatically saying that almost no one dies. Maybe one in a thousand. Perhaps one in ten thousand. In any case, far, far less than the number of guns that are "out there" in contemporary America.<br /><br />But the way to reduce the absolutely insane number of firearms in the hands of civilians who are not members of a "well regulated militia" (who, by the way, are the <b>only</b> people covered by the 2nd Amendment) is not through confiscation, but through education and evangelization.<br />Starhopperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350334327301656588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-62602538549219191602018-05-05T18:40:28.676-07:002018-05-05T18:40:28.676-07:00Now in your case, would the situation have been mu...Now in your case, would the situation have been much worse had you pulled a gun? Probably so. But there are also situations that could go much, much more poorly than if you could have defended yourself. I don't advocate everyone open carry pistols at all times or anything like that, but I also believe that people should at the very least be capable of defending themselves and their families from violent assailants, which exist pretty much anywhere there are people. The odds are low for any particular person, but it is better to be prepared and not need it than to need it and be unprepared.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-38246627353909371722018-05-05T18:37:00.130-07:002018-05-05T18:37:00.130-07:00One of the people I know who used a gun for self d...One of the people I know who used a gun for self defense was a woman who had a nutty ex husband that for some reason the police could never quite do anything about his stalking outside her house at night and harassing her with late-night calls. Finally one night he broke in and entered her bedroom while she was sleeping, but she heard him and held him at gunpoint until the police arrived and finally arrested the sicko. Incidentally, he had beaten her to the point of requiring facial reconstruction surgery while they were married - he didn't mean well when he broke in her bedroom.<br /><br />The other admittedly messed around with a woman who was technically still married (separated and going through a divorce), and the soon-to-be ex husband broke into his house with two of his buddies, armed with bats and lug wrenches, and they were stopped by a loaded shotgun pointed at them.<br /><br />I'm curious how you would explain to these two people that they had no need of a firearm.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-22044872020127329692018-05-05T18:16:22.029-07:002018-05-05T18:16:22.029-07:00I have had five break-ins into my home over the ye...I have had <b>five</b> break-ins into my home over the years, and was once held up at gunpoint in a convenience store, and have never felt the need for a firearm. Never. I'm glad I did not own one, as who knows? Something far worse than having a few possessions stolen could have happened. <br /><br />I carried a rifle (M-16) for seven years in the Army. I was trained in several sorts of rifles, machine guns, grenades, and even landmines. I understand and respect weaponry, and as a civilian see no need for me personally to possess one. And not only that, I personally know of no one who needs one either.Starhopperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350334327301656588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-78877105715478422442018-05-05T17:09:21.633-07:002018-05-05T17:09:21.633-07:00My argument regarding gun ownership for self-defen...My argument regarding gun ownership for self-defense is identical to owning a fire extinguisher - the vast majority will never need one, but it's foolish to depend on fortune. Be prepared. The first responder is the victim, not the police or fire departments.<br /><br />Note this is not an argument for so-called assault rifles, just a general mentality of possessing the most effective means of self-defense just in case.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-69609173763946585832018-05-05T16:02:07.248-07:002018-05-05T16:02:07.248-07:00Perhaps one out of a thousand persons (and probabl...Perhaps one out of a thousand persons (and probably way less than that) might have a legitimate need for a firearm, but do we really need 300 million guns in the USA? I'd say no.<br /><br />What I <i>would</i> say to your question is that our default position ought to be "no guns" with only very rare extenuating circumstances causing us to move off of that position. <br /><br />Your argument appears (correct me if I'm wrong) to be the reverse.Starhopperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350334327301656588noreply@blogger.com