tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post5111728621469239287..comments2024-03-27T15:34:14.749-07:00Comments on dangerous idea: Russell on Free ThoughtVictor Repperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10962948073162156902noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-9898219555518154082011-02-13T12:16:04.159-07:002011-02-13T12:16:04.159-07:00Walter - I don't see too many presuppers these...Walter - I don't see too many presuppers these days making explicitly presuppositional arguments on blogs or boards, but regardless, the whole point of the transcendental reasoning employed by these guys seems to be that *if* we don't presuppose the truth of Christianity, then all knowledge and reason fails and it is the end of the world. Seems like they indeed consider the possibility that their worldview is false, they just strongly reject it, based on the implications.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-53931358590170929042011-02-13T05:49:15.270-07:002011-02-13T05:49:15.270-07:00Anon: What types of theists will this not sit well...<i><br />Anon: What types of theists will this not sit well with? Is there some theology I don't know about that says we can't say "what if..?"?</i><br /><br />Ever met a Christian Presuppositionalist? They maintain that only their worldview is viable. In fact, they claim the <b>impossibility</b> of any worldview other than their own. Those type of believers consider it sinful to conceive that any other worldview <b>might</b> be correct; it's all about keeping every thought "captive" to Christ.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-62929928768409518852011-02-12T21:54:10.812-07:002011-02-12T21:54:10.812-07:00Is there some theology I don't know about that...Is there some theology I don't know about that says we can't say "what if..?"?<br /><br />If there is, Paul certainly didn't have any truck with it. See 1 Corinthians 15.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09752886510692318211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-21056754968165414412011-02-12T18:51:36.759-07:002011-02-12T18:51:36.759-07:00Walter:
I know this kind of thinking will not sit...Walter: <br />I know this kind of thinking will not sit well with certain types of theists, but that is my definition of a freethinker.<br /><br />Anon: What types of theists will this not sit well with? Is there some theology I don't know about that says we can't say "what if..?"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-10281346978142653462011-02-12T14:35:00.407-07:002011-02-12T14:35:00.407-07:00True freedom should include the option of embracin...<i>True freedom should include the option of embracing dogma and tradition.</i><br /><br />I would agree with that on principle. <br /><br />I think one should be free to say "what if." What if the Muslim or the Jew is right, and not me. What if the atheist is right, and not me. What if the orthodox Christian is right, and not me. If you cannot even conceive that another person with a different view might be right, then I am not sure that your thinking is free.<br /><br />I know this kind of thinking will not sit well with certain types of theists, but that is my definition of a freethinker.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-91206807409756352002011-02-12T10:34:00.093-07:002011-02-12T10:34:00.093-07:00True freedom should include the option of embracin...True freedom should include the option of embracing dogma and tradition.Mike Darushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06669617343235073078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-37632828659322384952011-02-11T18:57:51.795-07:002011-02-11T18:57:51.795-07:00Walter,
Some are less enslaved than others.Walter,<br /><br />Some are less enslaved than others.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09752886510692318211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-39698265790739540812011-02-11T13:00:18.006-07:002011-02-11T13:00:18.006-07:00Walter,
Yeah, words change their meanings over ti...Walter,<br /><br />Yeah, words change their meanings over time. Apparently in Elizabethan times, "atheist" was used to refer to someone who denied the validity of the sacraments, and had nothing to do with theism as such.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-66095127019254257862011-02-11T12:09:09.471-07:002011-02-11T12:09:09.471-07:00I'm trying to imagine Bertrand Russell as some...<i>I'm trying to imagine Bertrand Russell as someone free from the tyranny of his passions. Somehow, it isn't working.</i><br /><br />Is anyone totally free from their passions?<br /><br />@Bob<br /><br />If I am not mistaken, the term 'freethinker' was originally used to denote enlighten era liberal Christians and Deists who dared to question the established orthodox views of their time. Naturalists just co-opted the label later on.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-34916591200934997312011-02-11T10:07:56.183-07:002011-02-11T10:07:56.183-07:00I'm trying to imagine Bertrand Russell as some...I'm trying to imagine Bertrand Russell as someone free from the tyranny of his passions. Somehow, it isn't working.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09752886510692318211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-82570909437899699492011-02-11T09:55:23.333-07:002011-02-11T09:55:23.333-07:00Bob:
I consider myself to be a Freethinker... and...Bob:<br /><br /><i>I consider myself to be a Freethinker... and that process of free thinking has led me to conclude that the historical narrative of Christianity, as recorded in the Gospels, is the Truth. I hope that other Freethinkers don't deny that such an outcome is possible.</i><br /><br />Yes, I am a Freethinker too with the same outcome. However, I believe, just like you do, that we have genuinely free will, which makes us true freethinkers (in contrast, see above).Al Moritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17422697770654047870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-88007949347330642452011-02-11T09:50:49.048-07:002011-02-11T09:50:49.048-07:00I consider myself to be a Freethinker... and that ...I consider myself to be a Freethinker... and that process of free thinking has led me to conclude that the historical narrative of Christianity, as recorded in the Gospels, is the Truth. I hope that other Freethinkers don't deny that such an outcome is possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-11383590688330596862011-02-11T09:24:33.879-07:002011-02-11T09:24:33.879-07:00Seems to me that many so called free thinkers are ...Seems to me that many so called free thinkers are passionate about their tradition of free thought.Rob Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937716910001145836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-85902863616226185282011-02-11T08:25:04.469-07:002011-02-11T08:25:04.469-07:00Ok, then on that basis I reject the dogma written ...<i>Ok, then on that basis I reject the dogma written above this sentence.</i><br /><br />You're free to do so.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-19007934806181429262011-02-11T08:07:54.536-07:002011-02-11T08:07:54.536-07:00>Freethinkers should be free from the shackles ...>Freethinkers should be free from the shackles of dogma, whether that dogma comes from religious or secular institutions.<br /><br />Ok, then on that basis I reject the dogma written above this sentence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-50439005589020404902011-02-11T07:25:46.574-07:002011-02-11T07:25:46.574-07:00The irony is that 'freethinkers', if they ...The irony is that 'freethinkers', if they are naturalists, cannot truly consider themselves freethinkers. <br /><br />Under naturalism every thought, just like everything else, is physically determined (under naturalism, quantum indeterminism at the local level is no way out; if it came into play, it would only produce randomness in thoughts). Under these conditions, the naturalist is at the mercy of the choices of the circuits in his/her brain in considering the evidence -- he/she has no freedom in that. Free-thinking becomes a brutal illusion and self-deception.<br /><br />See also:<br /><br />http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/naturalism_is_true.htmAl Moritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17422697770654047870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-83414160075765210032011-02-11T06:22:18.461-07:002011-02-11T06:22:18.461-07:00Freethinkers should be free from the shackles of d...Freethinkers should be free from the shackles of dogma, whether that dogma comes from religious or secular institutions. Follow the evidence wherever it leads, even if you tip over a few sacred cows in the process.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-22881782181284144512011-02-11T05:26:15.457-07:002011-02-11T05:26:15.457-07:00Unexamined or unknowingly false assumptions?Unexamined or unknowingly false assumptions?unkleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12207729664951716799noreply@blogger.com