tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post3409059804736714835..comments2024-03-28T08:58:27.412-07:00Comments on dangerous idea: Sexual behavior is not a choice, but religious belief is??? Victor Repperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10962948073162156902noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-13180572001966253442015-04-11T16:06:02.634-07:002015-04-11T16:06:02.634-07:00"every single liberal and atheist I've pr..."every single liberal and atheist I've pressed on this matter has finally caved and admitted it's just their opinion as to what constitutes a moral (or enlightened) society, and it usually happens to conform with their opinions (surprise surprise)"<br /><br />And while you demand evidence for what others believe about the enlightenment of society, if you want to be honest, you must admit that your own beliefs are nothing more than an opinion. Or do you wish to prove me wrong?im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-52196076184383335962015-04-11T14:21:28.740-07:002015-04-11T14:21:28.740-07:00Kathen,
I was not specifically referring to homo...Kathen, <br /><br />I was not specifically referring to homosexuality in that post, though I certainly agree how it appears that way and could have worded my post more carefully. Agreed, I do not know the thoughts of the majority on that specific matter.<br /><br />But Papa said that there are certain actions and beliefs of an enlightened society, and I was curious to hear his non-subjective evidence on the matter. If it's merely his opinion, he is welcome to say so so the rest of us can shrug, say "Nice opinion that I'm not required to conform with in order to be moral or enlightened", and move on. But if he follows his own preaching and has his beliefs based on real evidence, it would be worth seeing.<br /><br />I'm not holding my breath, since every single liberal and atheist I've pressed on this matter has finally caved and admitted it's just their opinion as to what constitutes a moral (or enlightened) society, and it usually happens to conform with their opinions (surprise surprise).Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-5904125360339225202015-04-11T13:55:47.225-07:002015-04-11T13:55:47.225-07:00HERE is a fascinating interview with Peter Kreeft,...<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz5zcAm47i4" rel="nofollow">HERE</a> is a fascinating interview with Peter Kreeft, in which the rise of militant Islam and homosexuality are equated. Well worth a watch. At about 7 minutes in, he absolutely skewers the accusation of hatred made against Christians. Beautiful argument beautifully presented.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fabian.az.pl/images/JezuUfamTobieRama_DSC0018D.jpg" rel="nofollow">Jezu ufam tobie!</a>B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-49895476394179682922015-04-11T05:06:31.436-07:002015-04-11T05:06:31.436-07:00Kathen,
This may not apply to you, but it most de...Kathen,<br /><br />This may not apply to you, but it most definitely does to certain frequent posters on this site. Your question simply brought this issue to my mind.<br /><br />I really like this thought by Anthony Esolen: "If you despise tradition, then you assume that most men have gone badly wrong throughout all of history, and did so on those things nearest their hearts and minds." I have always marveled at how casually some people can simply dismiss the overwhelming mass of human experience over the millennia, somehow believing that our own tiny slice of history, constituting at most 4 or 5 percent of Humanity, is wiser than the 95% who have preceded us, and for no better reason than we just happen to be alive at the moment.<br /><br />We may be "better" at technology than earlier generations (and even there I am not so sure, considering what a trash heap we have made of our planet), but as far as what really counts (those things which define us as human beings), we've made no discernible progress since Homer.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fabian.az.pl/images/JezuUfamTobieRama_DSC0018D.jpg" rel="nofollow">Jezu ufam tobie!</a>B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-32157083678532891802015-04-11T00:51:06.285-07:002015-04-11T00:51:06.285-07:00Legion of Logic
I have no idea what the total hum...Legion of Logic<br /><br />I have no idea what the total human population is and I am happy to accept your figure.<br /><br />But that was not what I was questioning. You said that billions and billions of humans disagreed with Papalinton's views on morality, and specifically with his views on homosexuality. Well, I suspect most of those humans died before they were able to form an opinion on the subject and there is no reason to think that the ones that survived agreed with the official view. We just do not know what most people thought. Indeed, for most of human history we know far too little to have any idea what people were supposed to think, let alone what they did think.<br /><br />We do know that plenty of human cultures have accepted or at least tolerated homosexuality. Indeed I think plenty of Christians have thought gay sex was no more sinful than straight sex.Kathenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00185421952505762014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-68839004645601582622015-04-10T19:00:45.239-07:002015-04-10T19:00:45.239-07:00" total population of humans was 108 billion&..."<i> total population of humans was 108 billion</i>"<br /><br />That sounds about right. I remember hearing somewhere (I can't remember where) a couple of years ago that if all the people who had ever lived were alive today, the world's population would exceed 100 billion.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fabian.az.pl/images/JezuUfamTobieRama_DSC0018D.jpg" rel="nofollow">Jezu ufam tobie!</a>B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-20376107785446953082015-04-10T17:20:40.928-07:002015-04-10T17:20:40.928-07:00Kathen, according to a livescience link (I can pro...Kathen, according to a livescience link (I can provide the link when I get home, I don't know how to copy a link from a phone) the estimated total population of humans was 108 billion. If accurate, that is indeed billions and billions.<br /><br />In terms of what sort of evidence he could provide, I would assume someone who places such value on basing beliefs on evidence would not believe that this is the dawn of the enlightened age of humanity without some form of objective evidence that isn't simply his opinion. Since I have no idea what his evidence is, I will leave it to him to demonstrate.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-76949072928338013792015-04-10T15:08:00.540-07:002015-04-10T15:08:00.540-07:00Bob says, Linton's "enlightened society...Bob says, <i> Linton's "enlightened society" is nothing but a product of his fevered imagination, as demonstrated HERE."</i><br /><br />And Bob may be right. With christianity burgeoning in Africa and Muslims taking over Europe and set to become the largest subscribed religion on earth, shortly to overtake christianity, with fledgling atheism in apparent decline, according to Bob's citation, it seems humanity still has a very long and difficult way to go before we rid ourselves of our innate primitiveness. Belief in supernatural superstition is the path of least resistance. Combating religious superstition, magic whacko, people rising out of graves, gods and demons, and disembodied malevolent non-corporeal entities that go bump in the night, it might well be a very long while to come yet, before we reach our better angels.<br /><br />Old gods don't die. They fade away. Papalintonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03818630173726146048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-18441236009186838842015-04-10T11:35:15.026-07:002015-04-10T11:35:15.026-07:00"As an enlightened society we are now respond..."<i>As an enlightened society we are now responding to the better angels of our nature and of our humanity.</i>"<br /><br />Linton's "enlightened society" is nothing but a product of his fevered imagination, as demonstrated <a href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2015/04/the-facts-atheism-is-dying-out.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fabian.az.pl/images/JezuUfamTobieRama_DSC0018D.jpg" rel="nofollow">Jezu ufam tobie!</a>B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-38285481364654097122015-04-10T11:27:13.863-07:002015-04-10T11:27:13.863-07:00Disney - what, all of it?
THIS is a good idea of h...<i>Disney - what, all of it?</i><br /><a href="http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/2808:how-disney-magic-and-the-corporate-media-shape-youth-identity-in-the-digital-age#" rel="nofollow">THIS</a> is a good idea of how I feel about Disney in general.<br /><br /><i>Sin - a bit general</i><br />True, but it's a great space saver.<br /><br /><i>the digital age - and here you are posting by computer</i><br />I also drive a car, but firmly believe the world would be better off without them.<br /><br /><i>no canals on Mars - hey, if there were intelligent life on Mars we would certainly be at war with them. I am glad there are no canals on Mars.</i><br />Ever since I was a kid (back in the 1950s-60s), the solar system has been getting steadily less and less interesting. No more swamps and dinosaurs on Venus. No more one side of Mercury forever facing the Sun and the other side in perpetual darkness. No life on Mars. Jovian moons bathed in lethal radiation that would kill an unshielded human being within seconds. Prolonged exposure to Lunar dust extremely hazardous to your health. Martian soil turning out to be pure poison. Etc., etc.<br /><br /><i>Delaware - what, you hate a whole state? Is this an American joke I can't understand?</i><br />Yup, the whole state. The damn thing has no right to exist. The bastards there have so designed their ridiculously expensive toll roads (the highest per mile charge in the whole country) so that no Delaware resident would ever need to go through a toll booth, while untold millions of out-of-staters have no way to avoid them (the state sits squarely athwart the major East Coast highway), thus bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars into the state coffers. No wonder they have no state income tax! The rest of the country is subsidizing their government.<br /><br />If I could declare war on Delaware, I would.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fabian.az.pl/images/JezuUfamTobieRama_DSC0018D.jpg" rel="nofollow">Jezu ufam tobie!</a>B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-11951715870310153342015-04-10T11:25:26.683-07:002015-04-10T11:25:26.683-07:00"The tendency to bully - and later in life, a..."The tendency to bully - and later in life, attack - those who are different may prove you wrong here, though I've not done any research on the subject. Animosity and distrust of things that are different is a very natural tendency among humans and does not need to be taught."<br /><br />All you have to do is observe the attitudes of today's young people. Having been raised in a generally more enlightened society, they tend have no fear or hatred of gay people. This is strong evidence of the learned aspect of homophobic behavior.im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-41364891629198930122015-04-10T11:03:20.770-07:002015-04-10T11:03:20.770-07:00Legion of Logic
Perhaps you should say what kind ...Legion of Logic<br /><br />Perhaps you should say what kind of evidence Papalinton could be expected to produce. What are you looking for? What evidence do you yourself accept where morality is concerned?<br /><br />You might also explain the 'billions and billions'. That many?Kathenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00185421952505762014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-50604398645557776132015-04-10T10:55:44.670-07:002015-04-10T10:55:44.670-07:00Homophobia is taught, the same as many other kinds...<i>Homophobia is taught, the same as many other kinds of hatred.</i><br /><br />The tendency to bully - and later in life, attack - those who are different may prove you wrong here, though I've not done any research on the subject. Animosity and distrust of things that are different is a very natural tendency among humans and does not need to be taught.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-67265678005333151732015-04-10T10:53:53.422-07:002015-04-10T10:53:53.422-07:00Is hate of homophobes taught? And how do you detec...Is hate of homophobes taught? And how do you detect homophobes? Is it a thought crime or do you have to wait for actual violence or hate speech? Is voicing a negative political opinion about the legalization of same-sex marriage hate speech? Is it a crime to be a heterosexual because it implies aversion to homosexual activity? The more I think about it, the more confused I get.oozzielionelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326968846352428451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-8956415303444534592015-04-10T10:48:28.187-07:002015-04-10T10:48:28.187-07:00B.Prokop's list is a little odd.
Disney - wha...B.Prokop's list is a little odd.<br /><br />Disney - what, all of it?<br />Sin - a bit general<br />the digital age - and here you are posting by computer<br />no canals on Mars - hey, if there were intelligent life on Mars we would certainly be at war with them. I am glad there are no canals on Mars.<br />Delaware - what, you hate a whole state? Is this an American joke I can't understand?Kathenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00185421952505762014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-90029053341701178942015-04-10T10:48:05.133-07:002015-04-10T10:48:05.133-07:00As an enlightened society we are now responding to...<i>As an enlightened society we are now responding to the better angels of our nature and of our humanity.</i><br /><br />Every culture and society throughout history has considered itself to be enlightened. Tell me, what evidence do you have that your opinions about the correct morals of an enlightened society are right where the billions and billions of people that didn't agree were wrong? Please, no opinions. Just evidence.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-35320749504868018682015-04-10T08:36:57.970-07:002015-04-10T08:36:57.970-07:00"So if it turns out that homophobia is biolog..."So if it turns out that homophobia is biologically determined, would that make it alright?"<br /><br />Homophobia is taught, the same as many other kinds of hatred.im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-13505219660970146412015-04-10T03:32:43.755-07:002015-04-10T03:32:43.755-07:00So if it turns out that homophobia is biologically...So if it turns out that homophobia is biologically determined, would that make it alright?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-14594852120231876492015-04-09T15:30:44.844-07:002015-04-09T15:30:44.844-07:00haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed inn...haughty eyes, <br />a lying tongue,<br />hands that shed innocent blood,<br />a heart that devises wicked plans,<br />feet that make haste to run to evil,<br />a false witness who breathes out lies,<br />one who sows discord among brothers.<br /><br />I plagiarized a bit.oozzielionelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326968846352428451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-76960723360044506922015-04-09T14:03:36.526-07:002015-04-09T14:03:36.526-07:00You know, the footnote to my last posting got me t...You know, the footnote to my last posting got me to thinking. Since there's so much loose bandying about of the word "hater" of late, perhaps we all ought to come clean and admit to just what we <i>do</i> hate. I'll start. <br /><b>I hate:</b><br /><br />Rap<br />Ugly buildings<br />Anything ugly<br />Bright or unnecessary lighting at night<br />(Most) Country Western music<br />"Reality" TV (and I don't even own a TV - I just hate the fact that it exists)<br />Litter, especially when it's in the water<br />Atheism (<i>not</i> atheists!)<br />Pornography<br />Car alarms<br />Disney<br />Sin<br />Blind partisanship, be it on the right or the left<br />The Digital Age<br />Islamic Extremism<br />The fact that there are no canals on Mars (and no Martian Princesses)<br />Threats to the First Amendment<br />Cults<br />Delaware<br />Trade paperbacks (why couldn't they stick with mass market ones - they're such a perfect size)<br /><br />So... if you don't see it on that list, don't assume I hate it! Now who's brave enough to follow my example?<br /><br /><i>Jezu ufam tobie!</i>B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-69015731051720486782015-04-09T14:02:13.755-07:002015-04-09T14:02:13.755-07:00"Homosexual behavior was once widely consider...<i>"Homosexual behavior was once widely considered immoral but now it is now widely considered immoral to to call it immoral."</i><br /><br />Hoo-bloody-ray! And not before time religious-inspired homophobic bigotry be consigned to the dustbin of history. As civil law widens such anti-social religious-sanctioned behaviour is properly and rightfully constrained in a maturing community. As an enlightened society we are now responding to the better angels of our nature and of our humanity.<br /><br />I feel content on this issue.Papalintonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03818630173726146048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-84880397930269529472015-04-09T13:54:39.381-07:002015-04-09T13:54:39.381-07:00John Moore
The Catholic Church (I am not sure abo...John Moore<br /><br />The Catholic Church (I am not sure about other forms of Christianity) does indeed teach that you can sin mortally in your thoughts. However such thoughts can be about straight sex not just gay sex and you do have to give consent to the thoughts. You do have to deliberately think about sex. A passing thought that you try to ignore is not enough. Anyway it cannot be said that the Church teaches that homosexual orientation in particular is a sin; it could be argued perhaps that any sexual orientation is a sin, or at least produces a temptation to sin. Indeed I think that was the teaching of the medieval Church, that any instance of sex involved some form of sin.<br /><br />Anyway I don't think the Church's teaching about 'impure thoughts' implies in itself that gays are more sinful than straights. Anyone can have sexual desires after all.<br /><br />My grandmother was educated at a Catholic boarding school where she was made to wear clothes when she had a bath because the nuns thought that the sight of their own naked bodies might make the girls have sexual fantasies that would endanger their souls. I am quite sure they were not worried about gay sex, fantasies about straight sex would be quite enough to damn them.<br /><br />Kathenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00185421952505762014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-17431789348738960942015-04-09T13:52:38.019-07:002015-04-09T13:52:38.019-07:00Bob,
I'm still waiting to hear how your two v...Bob,<br /><br />I'm still waiting to hear how your two very different stances are to be reconciled:<br /><br />1. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided<br /><br />2. Making a cake for a gay couple should be regarded as equivalent to participating in a sinful activity and therefore is a violation of your religious freedom.<br /><br />Even if you have talked yourself into believing your own dubious rationalization that refusing to serve gay people is not discrimination, you can't deny that it still has the appearance of discrimination (because it is). And therefore, it is STILL a violation of your catechism.<br /> <br />im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-146803598761685892015-04-09T13:30:32.486-07:002015-04-09T13:30:32.486-07:00Bob,
I think I clarified my wrong "last sent...Bob,<br />I think I clarified my wrong "last sentence?<br /><br />"calling evil good" was aimed at advocates of the gay agenda. Homosexual behavior was once widely considered immoral but now it is now widely considered immoral to to call it immoral.oozzielionelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326968846352428451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-17859279608304293022015-04-09T13:05:21.405-07:002015-04-09T13:05:21.405-07:00Good point about "mushiness". This is on...Good point about "mushiness". This is one reason why I have always absolutely <i>hated</i> <b>*</b> the use of entrapment by law enforcement agencies. I simply do not believe it is their job to tempt people into committing crimes that, had they been left alone, would otherwise never have committed. Entrapment essentially turns our police force into pimps.<br /><br /><b>*</b> Hah! Here's one case where I will freely admit to being a "hater"! <br /><br /><i>Jezu ufam tobie!</i>B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.com