tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post1871775711358438244..comments2024-03-28T08:58:27.412-07:00Comments on dangerous idea: It couldn't happen here, could it? Victor Repperthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10962948073162156902noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-63409734981990761602016-06-19T06:09:14.042-07:002016-06-19T06:09:14.042-07:00Legion: "I agree that we should be opposed to...Legion: "I agree that we should be opposed to parents teaching that because it directly teaches kids to hate. New Atheists feel the exact same way about the first example as they do the second, which is where they go off the deep end."<br /><br />I don't think that I come across very often the kind of "new atheists" that you must. It seems that there are charlatans, self-promoters, etc. who glom onto whatever looks promising, and it seems that new atheism must have attracted some of these. CJ Werlman, that guy who wrote the article in the link to Huffington you provided, these guys just seem like your garden variety self-promoters, who seem transparently focused on becoming a leader (of something!) rather than real intellectual examination. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09268824070081295206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-82067041220159492982016-06-19T00:27:53.053-07:002016-06-19T00:27:53.053-07:00all the talk about atheism being moderate and bein...all the talk about atheism being moderate and being nonpoisonous. atheists are not all part of a movement there is organized atheist movement. it has an ideology, it seeks to create the illusion of personal opinion when in reality it's a form of brain washing.<br /><br />When I was a sociology major back in the bicentennial year, the stone age, one of the profs I has the honor to study with was Anson Schupe. He has since become a big name in sologcialogy of religion. he argued there is no such thing as actual brain washing TWiki;s really a form of socialization. My site atheist watch has been dedicated to showing how much of the new atheist movement is based upon a Fromm socialization created on the net.It's based upon ideology and the real effects are essentially a from of brain washing. it has them all spouting the same slogans.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-49176407887088118322016-06-17T23:08:57.035-07:002016-06-17T23:08:57.035-07:00I agree that we should be opposed to parents teach...I agree that we should be opposed to parents teaching that because it directly teaches kids to hate. New Atheists feel the exact same way about the first example as they do the second, which is where they go off the deep end.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-75289115176991506002016-06-17T21:16:21.002-07:002016-06-17T21:16:21.002-07:00@Legion, I agree that there is a difference in the...@Legion, I agree that there is a difference in the kinds of things parents teach children, and that some things are more benign than others.<br /><br />But do you think none of us should express an opinion about some parents teaching that "There is a god and he commanded us to slay his enemies in jihad."?<br /><br />I will express my opinion that I am opposed to parents teaching their children the above. I am an atheist. Are you saying that Christians won't agree with me that parents shouldn't teach their children that "There is a god and he commanded us to slay his enemies in jihad."?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09268824070081295206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-11792635113421687312016-06-17T20:24:25.130-07:002016-06-17T20:24:25.130-07:00"But does that mean that you, and other relig..."But does that mean that you, and other religious believers, have no opinion on what other parents teach their children?"<br /><br />Sure. But consider the following three statements a parent could conceivably teach their kids:<br /><br />1. There is a god and he sent his son to die for us.<br /><br />2. There is a god and he commanded us to slay his enemies in jihad.<br /><br />3. People who disagree with affirmative action in universities are bigoted racists.<br /><br />The problem with these atheists is that they would consider 1 and 2 to be ideologically related and out of bounds to teach children, but it is in fact 2 and 3 that are the most similar due to the identification of enemies to hate. There is absolutely nothing objectionable about 1 like there is 2 and 3.<br /><br />If the problem is parents teaching hate to kids, then these atheists should say so and stop lazily painting all religion with a wide brush. Otherwise, I begin to suspect that what is really going on is they just don't like god-belief, regardless of how benign.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-6539890708667307632016-06-17T20:23:47.875-07:002016-06-17T20:23:47.875-07:00"But does that mean that you, and other relig..."But does that mean that you, and other religious believers, have no opinion on what other parents teach their children?"<br /><br />Sure. But consider the following three statements a parent could conceivably teach their kids:<br /><br />1. There is a god and he sent his son to die for us.<br /><br />2. There is a god and he commanded us to slay his enemies in jihad.<br /><br />3. People who disagree with affirmative action in universities are bigoted racists.<br /><br />The problem with these atheists is that they would consider 1 and 2 to be ideologically related and out of bounds to teach children, but it is in fact 2 and 3 that are the most similar due to the identification of enemies to hate. There is absolutely nothing objectionable about 1 like there is 2 and 3.<br /><br />If the problem is parents teaching hate to kids, then these atheists should say so and stop lazily painting all religion with a wide brush. Otherwise, I begin to suspect that what is really going on is they just don't like god-belief, regardless of how benign.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-76905865157072905962016-06-17T18:37:02.881-07:002016-06-17T18:37:02.881-07:00Legion: "Ignoring the low hanging fruit of pe...Legion: "Ignoring the low hanging fruit of people like Richard Dawkins and Jerry Coyne, here is a Huffington Post article of identical sentiment."<br /><br />Okay, thanks for the link. I have no idea who the writer is, btw, but he seems kind of like a your garden-variety self promoter. So while I agree that the article is pretty vapid, I doubt that he has any real audience or following. <br /><br />Most of what I see here is atheists saying that it's really unfortunate that parents can indoctrinate their children with hateful beliefs, and that they (surprise!) focus on religious beliefs. But does that mean that you, and other religious believers, have no opinion on what other parents teach their children? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09268824070081295206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-53590338718600524882016-06-17T10:59:30.786-07:002016-06-17T10:59:30.786-07:00"Is there a citation you have in mind?"
..."Is there a citation you have in mind?"<br /><br />Ignoring the low hanging fruit of people like Richard Dawkins and Jerry Coyne, here is a Huffington Post article of identical sentiment.<br /><br />http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5814484.htmlKevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-44404443514091325502016-06-17T10:45:30.530-07:002016-06-17T10:45:30.530-07:00Grod: "...and Mr. Metzger in particular, a ce...Grod: "...and Mr. Metzger in particular, a certified moron -- and I know "moron" tends to inflame the discourse and be seen as an insult, but it is not an insult to say what everyone know to be true."<br /><br />I thought this was funny, and fair. Not technically correct ("certified"?), but not beyond the bounds of what I'm saying here.<br /><br />But no pretending on my part; I'm saying what I think, and not couching terms. It's true that what we surmise about one another has consequences, and I'm not here to say otherwise. <br /><br />But I'm not so sure that all delusions come with a compulsion to treat. I think there are many mild delusions (one's inflated sense of self-importance, for instance) that are by-and-large common and relatively benign.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09268824070081295206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-30408714754142819572016-06-17T10:15:50.061-07:002016-06-17T10:15:50.061-07:00"I know that terming religious belief a "..."I know that terming religious belief a "mental disorder" inflames discourse, but as a non-believer there is no way that I can see how religious belief doesn't fit the description of a delusion. I do think it's a mild delusion with most people, but delusional it remains."<br /><br />If the proposition "God exists" is not a proposition over which reasonable people can or could disagree, but rather that those that do assent to it are necessarily delusional (even if mildly), then it follows that those that do assent suffer from a medical condition. And once one accepts this, and since ideas have consequences, this has its own consequences. More could be said here (in particular, they are not responsible for their condition; since it is a medical condition, it cannot be reasoned out of, but must be treated with whatever means are available; etc.), but to pretend that this is not a direct route to oppression and totalitarianism is, to hand back the insult, a typical blindness of atheism in general, an infantile disease of the intellect, and Mr. Metzger in particular, a certified moron -- and I know "moron" tends to inflame the discourse and be seen as an insult, but it is not an insult to say what everyone know to be true.grodrigueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12366931909873380710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-28040574736564432782016-06-17T10:14:45.673-07:002016-06-17T10:14:45.673-07:00Atheism is a belief- the belief that there is no G...Atheism is a belief- the belief that there is no God. (Yeah, I know " lack of belief" and all that jazz. How anyone can say that with a straight face is amusing at best. )There are plenty of people, past, present, and future who hold to the atheist dogma. Dogmas of many kinds can,and have, given rise to tyranny. Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04865413665629644313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-12242667648344050512016-06-17T09:47:09.018-07:002016-06-17T09:47:09.018-07:00Legion: "Based upon statements by the leaders...Legion: "Based upon statements by the leaders of the New Atheist movement, Christians should not be allowed to teach their kids about God."<br /><br />Is there a citation you have in mind? <br /><br />What's your position on parents who refuse to let their children receive medical treatment? In other words, is there a point at which a broader society has an interest in how a parent's beliefs can influence the treatment of their children? <br /><br />Legion: "Religious belief should be considered a mental disorder."<br /><br />I know that terming religious belief a "mental disorder" inflames discourse, but as a non-believer there is no way that I can see how religious belief doesn't fit the description of a delusion. I do think it's a mild delusion with most people, but delusional it remains. <br /><br />Legion: "I've been told personally by New Atheists that Christians should not be able to hold office or executive positions in business."<br /><br />As someone who is labeled a "new atheist" all the time, I would like to say that I don't agree with that stance for many obvious reasons. <br /><br />I do agree with others, though, who express what I think Ben Carson was trying to say about Muslims as President -- that an Islamist (one who wants to enforce Sharia, and do away with the separation of Church and State) is unfit to be President. And that's because a President is sworn to uphold the Constitution, and Islamist beliefs are in direct opposition to some parts of the Constitution. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09268824070081295206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-24969294834181003162016-06-17T08:25:10.338-07:002016-06-17T08:25:10.338-07:00"A contradiction, perhaps? "
Atheism is..."<i>A contradiction, perhaps? </i>"<br /><br />Atheism is a contradiction generation machine.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-43844016981640450062016-06-17T08:17:28.275-07:002016-06-17T08:17:28.275-07:00Based upon statements by the leaders of the New At...Based upon statements by the leaders of the New Atheist movement, Christians should not be allowed to teach their kids about God. Religious belief should be considered a mental disorder. Religious people should not be granted prominent positions. And so on. I've been told personally by New Atheists that Christians should not be able to hold office or executive positions in business.<br /><br />The only, single, solitary reason that these atheist zealots don't impose their beliefs on Christians is because they are far too tiny a minority. Otherwise, they dream of what VR posted about in the OP.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-48129779333911805582016-06-17T06:56:44.318-07:002016-06-17T06:56:44.318-07:00Yeah, because atheist persecution of Christians in...Yeah, because atheist persecution of Christians in U.S. society is the thing we have to really be vigilant about:<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/us/in-seven-states-atheists-push-to-end-largely-forgotten-ban-.html?_r=0<br /><br />http://christiannews.net/2014/06/01/u-s-navy-denies-atheists-application-to-become-military-chaplain/<br /><br />http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/in-atheists-we-distrust/<br /><br />Not to mention all the real discrimination that still occurs towards various races, genders, sexual orientations, etc. There are a lot of Christians in the U.S. who should really try and get over themselves.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09268824070081295206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-24058599112140123772016-06-17T06:55:57.527-07:002016-06-17T06:55:57.527-07:00" Religion is much more totalitarian than ath..." Religion is much more totalitarian than atheism.....religions...have...dogmas"<br /><br />But, atheism entails the " dogma that there's no dogma".<br /><br />A contradiction, perhaps?Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04865413665629644313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-2653402808319893672016-06-17T06:09:18.987-07:002016-06-17T06:09:18.987-07:00"all forms of mass culture had to be upgraded..."<i>all forms of mass culture had to be upgraded in content, so as to woo the population away from religious spectacles. For instance, during the Easter holidays the state would show especially popular programs on TV and keep movie theaters open into the late hours to keep the populace from attending all night Easter services.</i>"<br /><br />It doesn't require atheism <i>per se</i> to accomplish this. There are few things which enrage me more than when a priest will rush through Mass in order to not miss the opening kickoff of "The Big Game" on some Sunday - and even admit to doing so during his sermon. (And yes, I have seen this happen!)<br /><br /><i>Jezu ufam tobie!</i>B. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548980245078214688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-55838347847725754692016-06-17T04:35:58.439-07:002016-06-17T04:35:58.439-07:00"Atheism is inherently moderate. How can you ..."Atheism is inherently moderate. How can you carry out drastic actions if it's just your personal opinion, or if you're unsure?"<br /><br />This from the same guy that wrote:<br /><br />"You're right. It's just that atheists today assume nobody in their right mind would freely choose to believe in God. All god-believers must surely be misled by dogmatic authorities! So that's also part of the definition of atheism, at least for now."<br /><br />Expletives deleted.grodrigueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12366931909873380710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-52439275027578819632016-06-17T01:54:42.395-07:002016-06-17T01:54:42.395-07:00"You're right. It's just that atheist..."You're right. It's just that atheists today assume nobody in their right mind would freely choose to believe in God. All god-believers must surely be misled by dogmatic authorities! So that's also part of the definition of atheism, at least for now."<br /><br />What the fuckAtnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13138424784532839636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-14589277256639953102016-06-16T23:53:57.454-07:002016-06-16T23:53:57.454-07:00^ It's impossible to reason with those who giv...^ It's impossible to reason with those who give themselves mermission to lie.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10584495.post-42369842066488908112016-06-16T22:23:21.784-07:002016-06-16T22:23:21.784-07:00Religion is much more totalitarian than atheism. A...Religion is much more totalitarian than atheism. After all, religions tend to have sacred texts and dogmas. Religious leaders insist you must believe what those texts and dogmas say. In atheism, by contrast, the only "dogma" is that there's no dogma.<br /><br />It's possible the U.S. government could one day become totalitarian and try to root out religion. But if it did, that government would not be atheistic. It's a misuse of the vocabulary to suggest atheism could be totalitarian.<br /><br />----<br /><br />OK, I know what you guys are going to say - under my definition, a person who looked at the facts and drew his own conclusion and decided to believe in God would still count as an "atheist." And isn't that itself a misuse of the vocabulary?<br /><br />You're right. It's just that atheists today assume nobody in their right mind would freely choose to believe in God. All god-believers must surely be misled by dogmatic authorities! So that's also part of the definition of atheism, at least for now.<br /><br />Again, it's possible that a wannabe-atheistic government could pass laws curbing the power of certain dogmatic authorities, and there's nothing wrong with that. It just can't be taken to extremes like in the old Soviet Union, or else it becomes its own worst enemy, an anti-dogma dogma.<br /><br />Atheism is inherently moderate. How can you carry out drastic actions if it's just your personal opinion, or if you're unsure? On the other hand, religion tends to take things to extremes. People do drastic actions because some high authority figure told them it was OK.<br /><br />That's why religious people have nothing to fear from a truly atheistic government. Totalitarianism is our enemy, not atheism.John B. Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00234524731241646514noreply@blogger.com